Corpate CYA

[franji1]

Update Time

That's sad to hear.  We hear from a lot of people who think Do-more is the best PLC out there, better than A/B or any other PLC.  These are people who have experience across many PLC lines.  But they also mention that they have to be careful how boisterous they are because of all the A/B bigots out there.

What's great is that all of the Do-more CPUs and the entire BRX line is developed, designed, and manufactured here in the USA.  Even the plastic is made in Knoxville, TN!!  Not too many PLC lines can make that claim.

Sad, sad, sad.   

[DLTimmons]

For some reason the analog cards fail occasionally, (Facts engineering)

Seen the same thing, that did not help in keeping AD as a source.

[BobO]

With regard to analog reliability, how does that apply to platform? Same across H2/T1H/BRX, or not?

We've had enough requests for the BRX onboard channels in module form that we are pursuing that. If you are happy with what you're using, we certainly encourage you to continue using them, but there will be alternatives with a different feature set.

Key differences:
1. Universal voltage/current
2. Internal power, no external 24v required
3. Two isolation banks
4. 1.2ms update rate for *all* channels
5. 5mm terminations
6. Onboard filtering

If well received, we may also consider a universal temperature module.

[DLTimmons]

Sad, sad, sad.   

I got to get out of that place sad it was a very good place till a couple years ago. had a heart rate of 100 and blood pressure of 220/120 thought I was headed to ER last night till got it down to 170/100 still going to Doctor today. The stress of losing stage programming, rampsoak ,CTRIO2 and Modbus communication was just a little to much to deal with on top of it turning to a good old boy club and having to say what they want to hear not want they need to hear. They "layed off" two very good control guys that starting Do-more on every thing. introduce someone to a do-more and the next thing you see they are using them most of the time! Even after laying odd two guys their still bring a new guy on. Want bet he is AB suckup?

I have to overcome major mechanical issue oh the boss is a mechanical engineer and the mechanical group can not get things right forcing the control group to over come their problems

[DLTimmons]

With regard to analog reliability, how does that apply to platform? Same across H2/T1H/BRX, or not?

F2-02DA-2 are the one we lose. Not sure if the redesign to a single board helped yet. Have seen some two board separate under vibration.

[Controls Guy]

I will miss stage programming the most.

If they buy the ($$$$) top of the line CLX software, you can do ST and FBD, so it may do SFC, I can't remember.  I know some models of PLC-5 did.  Stage is just Koyo's semi-implementation of SFC.

[Controls Guy]

What's great is that all of the Do-more CPUs and the entire BRX line is developed, designed, and manufactured here in the USA.  Even the plastic is made in Knoxville, TN!!

I tell people that all the time and their jaws drop!

[Controls Guy]

I have to overcome major mechanical issue oh the boss is a mechanical engineer and the mechanical group can not get things right forcing the control group to over come their problems

I HATE that!!  I'm an ME crossed over from (to?) the dark side, so I have no patience with the mechanical being hosed up, and bandaiding over a bad design with controls is always asking for trouble.  When I've worked in that scenario, the ME/PM's didn't like hearing that, but you can't always get what you want.

[DLTimmons]

 bandaiding over a bad design with controls is always asking for trouble. 

Been telling them that for years. Now they think AB going to cure all the problems. AB not going make maintenance guys use meters. They for sure not going to be able to use a PC for trouble shoot as they not going to want to but that many copies of the software and shared PC don't work. wait till they start shoot gun AB cards

If by some chance I still there I think I will use ST on every thing that will really blow the maintenance guys minds

They think the compactlogix series is how the going to go.

[Garyhlucas]

DL,
You have my condolences, I escaped from AB about 5 years ago and have no desire to go back.  I haven't had a software licensing issue in 5 years now, it is so pleasant.  I get parts in two days and don't have to worry about whether the local rep actually stocks these parts because AB stocks NOTHING.  We are now having our panels built by outside UL 508 shops.  They all want to substitute other brands of whatever.  We are resolute, no substitutions are allowed, all AD.  You don't like AD, we don't have a problem with that but you will use it if want our business.  No one has walked yet.  If we need to service a system out of state I want to be very sure that even the terminal blocks I carry in my bag will fit, and I won't have to find a local vendor to sell them to me either.

[DLTimmons]

DL,
You have my condolences,

I thank you. Back from Doc on meds now I will use up some of that 200 hours of sick time that I will lose

I escaped 13 years ago that was a big reason I started there. Directsoft is good but when the do-more came out that was a game changer. Right now we still have 30 WinPLCs and I have the only Pc that will run Think and do. Now you think a do-more up grade would be the way to go. No they want to replace the d2 rack with AB and most of these will require new cabinet as there not room in them for the AB. There big reason for the AB is down time they want to blame on AD PLCs! How much down will there be making that swap 

They had a round of layoffs seam they got 2 from the control group the 2 most vocal about AB not fitting the "never fail" as both guys had several AB systems fail on them at other places.  I believe the only reason they did not lay me off was I 'm the only that can work on the WinPLc and they are is some critical systems that if they go down it not long before they have start sending welders home Plus 2 major material handling system that I wrote PC interface on, as well as the PLC programs

[davidbgtx]

With regard to analog reliability, how does that apply to platform? Same across H2/T1H/BRX, or not?

For me it's always been the 205 series, but I don't have any analog in the T1H, and haven't had BRX long enough to say. I've also had some fails with the F2-04THM.
I've actually considered ezautomation's "drop In Replacement modules"  for the 205 analog, to see if they hold up better than Facts modules, but am to gun shy to try.

[Controls Guy]

I've actually considered ezautomation's "drop In Replacement modules"  for the 205 analog, to see if they hold up better than Facts modules, but am to gun shy to try.

EZA's probably come with sleeze preinstalled.

[davidbgtx]

Having bashed the Facts analog a bit, I must say that I've had several Siemens analog modules fail also, so don't get me wrong I'm hard core AD/Host.

[BobO]

If there are any issues with any BRX module, please let us know. I believe that FACTS does a very good job with design phase testing and I know that is something they have worked on over the years. Production testing is something I know they are constantly improving, and if there are any issues, I would fully expect that to improve over time. Reliability is a different problem altogether, and I really don't have any information to evaluate that. I can give pretty much the same exact answers for all three things from Host's side. The one promise I can make on behalf of Host: If there are problems, we *will* fix them.

On reliability: When we worked at TI years ago, there were standard "design for reliability" guidelines we used. Many of the rules have changed since then, mostly due to improvements in production testing by part vendors. Some of it is just common sense though...protect vulnerable parts and don't stress them. Sometimes we don't know things are being stressed (like small stress over small windows of time), and issues don't show up for a while.

Fun story along those lines: During BRX development we were losing one of the onboard power supplies at a ridiculous rate. Checked and checked the design. Everything well within spec. No clue. After weeks of randomly breaking stuff, we finally figured out that a transformer was not performing anywhere near its spec, and would touch the edge of saturation at a much lower level than spec. Occasionally, that would progress to the point it would warm the core until it stopped being magnetic...catastrophic failure. The answer was simple, but there was really nothing the engineer could have done better.

There is always a balance between cost and robustness though. I'm sure we could build space station level triple redundancy, but nobody would pay for it...except NASA. And the flip side of that is that although up time would be basically 100%, replacement costs would explode...since triple redundancy reduces MTBF by 66%. Reminds me of the old saw from aviation: A twin engine plane has double the chance of failure, and the purpose of the second engine is to guarantee that you are going faster when you crash.