ARM CPUs

[MarkTTU]

I've been using a MacBook with VMware to program for many years now. With Apple's recent decision to move to their own CPUs and the ARM architecture I suspect my ability to run x86 programs is about to become quite complicated. There's a version of Windows for the ARM instruction set that is supposed to work with the new Apple CPUs though. Anyone know if DirectSoft and Do-more will run on Windows ARM?

[Controls Guy]

Isn't VMware virtualizing the instruction set?

[MarkTTU]

As I understand it it?s just passing instructions through, not actually virtualizing the CPU instruction set.

[Controls Guy]

As I understand it it?s just passing instructions through, not actually virtualizing the CPU instruction set.

Well, that's not super-virtual!   I think different virtualization platforms do it differently, but wasn't sure which VMware was.

[MarkTTU]

I think there are some that actually virtualize the instruction set, but most common that I know about is the hypervisor model where the VM is actually just controlling what gets access to the hardware and when. All the ones I've heard of through the years that actually create a virtual CPU and instruction set are painfully slow compared to running on real silicon. Well, except Domore, but I take it the reason it's faster on my computer than on a BRX is because my computer CPU is so many orders of magnitude faster in general... though I admit I don't know and am just making an assumption.

[Bolt]

So is the Mac Book hardware that much better than the better PC based laptops that people go through all the trouble to still be able to run Windows?
Sounds like you'll need to run your Do-More Designer inside of VMWare inside of another VM program!  Yay Apple!

[MarkTTU]

It's not entirely about the hardware, but in general I've found the MacBook hardware to be far superior to the "other guys." When I first went to Mac my first MacBook had specs that were nearly identical to the Dell laptop I was coming off of (it was a high end Dell at the time using the same intel CPU, same ram, even the same video card). I was amazed when DirectLogic and Cmore ran faster and smoother in a Windows virtual machine on the MacBook than they did in Windows on the Dell. And yes, I realize that the same components should logically result in similar performance, but in that particular case they didn't. Maybe Apple is just that much better at motherboard design than Dell? I don't know.

Fast forward to today and I couldn't honestly tell you if that hardware differential would still be the case, but I can tell you I love my Mac and MacOS. The only time I use Windows is in a virtual machine on my Mac and then it's only for DirectSoft, Do-more, and Cmore. If it wasn't for those programs I wouldn't need Windows at all nor would I miss it.

[jcottrill]

This is an interesting one as I know some people that buy Macs for the hardware and then run Windows VMs via vmWare Workstation.  Not a Mac expert by an means but the future definitely lacks clarity.  Looks like Bootcamp support for Windows will die and Windows 10 for ARM can only be licensed by OEMs.  It sounds like general x86 support in Windows 10 ARM is pretty decent.  Guess it depends on whether you can legally run it or not.

[Controls Guy]

This is an interesting one as I know some people that buy Macs for the hardware and then run Windows VMs via vmWare Workstation.  Not a Mac expert by an means but the future definitely lacks clarity.  Looks like Bootcamp support for Windows will die and Windows 10 for ARM can only be licensed by OEMs.  It sounds like general x86 support in Windows 10 ARM is pretty decent.  Guess it depends on whether you can legally run it or not.

I took a "Siemens for Rockwell Guys" seminar about 5 years ago from a guy named Keith Jones, who has an integration shop in Alabama.    They run TIA, obviously, but also do a lot of RSL5K/Studio and give their guys the choice of a MacBook running all that stuff in a VM, or a top of the line Dell, and most of them opt for the Macs, which speaks well of the performance of running Win VMs on Apple hardware.   Can't say I like the idea of the "hard drive" soldered into the motherboard, though.

[MarkTTU]

I?m not a fan of the SSD soldered to the board nor the RAM soldered. That said I can attest that the thermal specs of what Apple uses are significantly better than what?s commonly available. Back when you could swap out ram/ssd it was super easy to go back with something that ran too hot even though it checked all the other boxes.

It does result in over-buying on the hardware a bit though because you really have to think what will I need in 3-4 years.

[Controls Guy]

Well, and if the box dies, on my Lenovo's I can typically pull the hard drive with one screw.   Soldered, not so much.  Not that the Lenovo's die regularly, but disaster recovery, you know?     I did have one die in the field maybe 8-10 years ago, took out the hard drive and was back on the air in a matter of minutes.   If it were chips soldered to the board, I'd have been exiled to the proverbial foul-smelling tributary. (And yes, I back up, but there's a lot of apps and data on that drive, and backup recovery takes a lot more than 20 minutes)

[jwbaker3]

Sounds like Ford vs Chevy. Use what you like and works for you. I will stay with windows because of cost and wear and tear on our equipment, also I think the technology moves fast enough that we need to replace our laptops about 2 to 3 years. Some of the environments we get into will destroy a computer quickly so why buy a high end computer. Cost is a big factor when each of our Technicians carry 4 laptops, one primary one backup each for clean environments (food plants, pharmaceuticals) and the same for dirty environments (foundries, heavy metal fab). We do have online backup for every computer and external hard drives for backup, and we change the HDD to SSD as soon as we buy a new computer. But each job is different so I would use what makes good business sense, cost, personal preference, performance and environment should all be part of the decision.

JW 

[Controls Guy]

I don't hear anyone sounding like a Wintel or Apple evangelist.   For me, for example, I'm just objecting to the concept of physically welding all your data to the motherboard.   I'd hate it if Lenovo did it too (and btw, I miss the days when you could buy an IBM Thinkpad FROM IBM).