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Author Topic: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags  (Read 62958 times)

MarkTTU

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HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« on: August 20, 2019, 03:45:29 PM »
Working on a project that is extremely large and running into performance issues with the C-more that we've been using extensively for a long time. We've got over a thousand tags on a single screen and hundreds of screens in the project. Anyone have recommendations for an HMI that's higher performance than the C-more and can speak Domore symbolic? We're looking for either a headless type solution where we can supply our own large touch monitor or something with a screen that's around 19".

ADC Product Engineer

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2019, 04:32:14 PM »
Not sure if anyone else speaks the symbolic protocol.  I know Red Lion has a driver, but I don't know if it is the older driver (I think it is), or the newer symbolic protocol.

Might look at Indusoft SCADA.  They have a Do-more driver.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 04:40:23 PM by ADC Product Engineer »

MarkTTU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 05:24:23 PM »
Thanks, will check them out. Do you know if their driver is the old one or the newer symbolic one?

ATU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 06:02:35 PM »
One thing nice about the Redlion is that you can setup a Modbus Communications block and update the HMI at your own timing using the Modbus Write Instructions in the BRX. 

MarkTTU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 06:16:35 PM »
ModBUS is an option for sure, but there'd be a lot of copying back and forth to that memory block in the BRX given the number of tags we're working with.

ADC Product Engineer

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 09:17:25 PM »
Not sure Mark.  I want to say Indusoft may have the symbolic, but I don't remember.

MarkTTU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2019, 03:07:50 PM »
Not sure Mark.  I want to say Indusoft may have the symbolic, but I don't remember.
Ok, thanks. Hopefully we'll find a way to squeeze a little more performance out of the Cmore; that's my first choice if we can make it happen.

ADC Product Engineer

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
Doubt that this is any faster, but...  You've always wanted a bigger display option.

https://www.automationdirect.com/c-more/headless-hmi

MarkTTU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2019, 07:46:16 PM »
Doubt that this is any faster, but...  You've always wanted a bigger display option.

https://www.automationdirect.com/c-more/headless-hmi
That's actually what we're working with. It's a great little box, and talk about fun hooking it up to a 65" TV, but I don't think it's any faster than the 12" and 15" screens.

ADC Product Engineer

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 08:11:06 PM »
Man.  I can't surprise you with anything cool anymore.   ::)

MarkTTU

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 09:52:41 PM »
Man.  I can't surprise you with anything cool anymore.   ::)
Oh I bet you can... but not on a public forum  :-X

Garyhlucas

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 02:10:54 PM »
Surprised me! That is seriously cool. Of course that?s the only reason I come here, to be impressed.

Controls Guy

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2019, 03:31:45 PM »
Doubt that this is any faster, but...  You've always wanted a bigger display option.

https://www.automationdirect.com/c-more/headless-hmi

Cool!  I didn't know you guys were in that space!   8)
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.

Controls Guy

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 03:42:34 PM »
Working on a project that is extremely large and running into performance issues with the C-more that we've been using extensively for a long time. We've got over a thousand tags on a single screen and hundreds of screens in the project. Anyone have recommendations for an HMI that's higher performance than the C-more and can speak Domore symbolic? We're looking for either a headless type solution where we can supply our own large touch monitor or something with a screen that's around 19".

What kind of update rate are you looking for?  Do the tags not on the active screen have to be updated anyway, perhaps for logging?  Some HMI's (not sure about C-More) only poll tags necessary for the current screen or logging.  How many tags are there total?  Hundreds of thousands or is there a lot of overlap?

I've never done anything like that but it wouldn't surprise me if to get the bandwidth you need you might end up streaming data from the source PLC.  Also, I think you'd get better performance if there is a lot of logging beyond the animation-visible tags, if there were a database machine collecting and logging the data, and then maybe the HMI could get animation data from the database server as a secondary process (probably tag writes would still go to the PLC).

PC-based HMI's like DAQ Factory might help.  Many have scripting capability and allow you more control over polling.    Some of them can also be used with OPC servers, which would give you another option to pursue.

Finally, will Do-More act as a E/IP producer?  The response time on E/IP messages is in the microseconds.  Not sure about poll rate, but it has to be pretty good.
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franji1

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Re: HMI for LOTS of screens and tags
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 03:54:38 PM »
Cool!  I didn't know you guys were in that space!   8)

The headless C-more HMI was announced yesterday.  You're behind the times.   ;)