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Author Topic: Motion sanity check...  (Read 194076 times)

Controls Guy

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Re: Motion sanity check...
« Reply #90 on: May 05, 2016, 11:29:41 AM »
No it doesn't, I think it is a great feature for a low cost PLC, actually pretty amazing. The user just has to understand its limitations and it would be the perfect fit for applications that don't require tightly coupled coordinated motion. I am sure there are plenty of those type of applications out there.

Agree on all counts.  I'd never do a critical (crash capable) application open loop or where a pulse and direction signal is outside the loop closure.  If the pulse wire falls off you have no way of knowing you aren't in the location or on the path you think you are.  But....I bet there are many, many in-between applications that will be enabled or improved by taking this high-end motion feature and rolling it right into the PLC.
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BobO

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Re: Motion sanity check...
« Reply #91 on: May 05, 2016, 11:41:29 AM »
Agree on all counts.  I'd never do a critical (crash capable) application open loop or where a pulse and direction signal is outside the loop closure.  If the pulse wire falls off you have no way of knowing you aren't in the location or on the path you think you are.  But....I bet there are many, many in-between applications that will be enabled or improved by taking this high-end motion feature and rolling it right into the PLC.

I wouldn't push people to use it places they weren't comfortable, but if we added the encoder input and following error, I think it would satisfy this need quite well. The PLC would know exactly what he's telling the servo drive, who is closing the loop on the PLC specified position, and the servo drive's encoder is reporting the actual position back to the PLC, who can kill the entire multi-axis action at the first sign of trouble. A break in the pulse train = following error. A break in the encoder feedback = following error. If anything, I think it would be more finicky and prone to faulting, not less.

Open loop though? Yeah, I agree on both points. For critical stuff, don't. And yeah, there's likely a ton of non-critical stuff that could benefit.
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Controls Guy

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Re: Motion sanity check...
« Reply #92 on: May 05, 2016, 11:59:09 AM »
I wouldn't push people to use it places they weren't comfortable, but if we added the encoder input and following error, I think it would satisfy this need quite well. The PLC would know exactly what he's telling the servo drive, who is closing the loop on the PLC specified position, and the servo drive's encoder is reporting the actual position back to the PLC, who can kill the entire multi-axis action at the first sign of trouble. A break in the pulse train = following error. A break in the encoder feedback = following error. If anything, I think it would be more finicky and prone to faulting, not less.

Exactly.  I have no problem using pulse and direction as long as the encoder feedback, whether direct or relayed/simulated by the drive, comes back to a point where the difference can be observed.

Quote
Open loop though? Yeah, I agree on both points. For critical stuff, don't. And yeah, there's likely a ton of non-critical stuff that could benefit.

You'd be shocked how many people do it though.  I have this one customer that does their own system design and only calls me once they've painted themselves in a corner, functionality or schedule-wise. They keep insisting on using steppers open-loop in at least process-critical if not crash-critical applications.  Last time it happened, I explained to their tech that I wouldn't use steppers like that because of the broken wire issue.  He says “Yeah, we already found out about that”, so I'm looking at him like “And?”, but the owner has pretty tight control over what they buy and if he thinks a stepper is good enough, that's what you're going to get, so nothing changed.
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.

BobO

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Re: Motion sanity check...
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2016, 11:44:23 AM »
Three cammed axes, controlled by a 4th virtual axis. Third pane shows difference between what the master is asking for via the cam, and where the slaves actually are...we're calling that Master/Slave Coordination Error. Fourth pane shows one axis of pulse out/encoder Following Error...sorry I only have one stepper/encoder pair connected. ;)

The initial moves on the left are due to the cammed position of each axis being non-zero when the master is 0; AXCAM does an initial move to get the master slave in sync. Then I ramp up the master, and the rotary mode cam functions spit out a nice sin wave. Basically the world's most expensive washing machine motor.
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Controls Guy

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Re: Motion sanity check...
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2016, 12:02:31 PM »
So cool!   8)

I predict this will get used a LOT.
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.