Designer 1.1 feedback?

[BobO]

We have heard dang near nothing on the Do-more 1.1 roll-out. Which tells me one of two things: 1) y'all haven't tried it yet, or 2) the process was super smooth. Perhaps some of both...

Hearing nothing leaves me nervous, so do us a solid and drop a note here if you have upgraded. Mostly interested in how the process went and whether there were issues.

[Controls Guy]

I did upgrade (add) DMD v1.1 with no apparent issues.

Don't have any new Do-More projects nor maintenance and troubleshooting on existing, and don't expect to for at least a couple weeks, so I haven't flashed any PLC's nor used the software in a real project yet.

I did skim the release notes (after having more thoroughly read earlier versions once or twice), and there are many important features in there that I expect to be helpful when there is the opportunity/need to use v1.1, such as the context menu triggering of Programs.  Just nothing needs programming at the moment.

[plcnut]

Bob,
So far so good.
Updates to PC and PLC both went smooth.
I haven't had time to do much programming though... been learning VB.NET...
So no news is good news from me

[BobO]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Glad to hear all is well so far. We didn't expect issues...but then again, we never do.

[ERokc]

I delayed loading 1.1 only because I wanted a clean running program before changing.  I had to resolve a couple of issues and could not on my own.  One issue was corrected with 1.1 in the STRPRINT instruction by using power flow input instead of edge input.  Still don't know why the 1.0 version wasn't working but really don't care now.

The other issue was a result of poor programming by having the same output in two rungs, last one wins effect. That one got an entry in my programming notebook.

Having only a couple of days use I am pleased. I've seen about four corrections on items I reported.  Keep up the good work.

I just discovered a minor display problem.  PLC is running.  See attachment.

Back to breaking and fixing and breaking again.

[franji1]

I just discovered a minor display problem.  PLC is running.  See attachment.

Can you remember the last couple things you did just before this lovely display showed up ?  e.g.
1. scrolled ladder
2. turned status ON
3. changed zoom level
4. changed sysconfig
5. opened this code-block
6. opened another code-block
7. search/replace
8. opened online project
9. modified a rung
10.
any combination

[ERokc]

I knew you were going to ask.  During my recent editing it would show up then correct itself. At that point I tried to make it come and go but without success. I will watch what I'm doing and try to catch the conditions that causes it.

Scrolling ladder has no effect.
Status off, it shrinks as it should.
All Status on, shows correct.
Close Designer with program still in window.
Open Designer, problem exists.
Toggle status and it corrects.  I can't get it to malfunction except to close/open Designer.

If you need my project I will send it to your email to keep it confidential. Send a message if you need it.
Also the OFFDTMR Output Xref focus does not move down when status is on.  Focus remains where it was when status was off.

I have a request.  I have seen this request before and was hoping it was improved on.
I switch STATUS a lot because I can't read the element in STATUS mode.  The font is small, white on a black background, 5,6,8 look alike. I think black on a light background would help.  Also it would be nice to have an option for nicknames with status on.

[franji1]

I can't get it to malfunction except to close/open Designer.

That's good enough!  So the top Ladder View is the one with the mis-aligned box boundary (i.e. you don't click on another code-block tab or open another code-block to get this strange behavior)?

[franji1]

I have a request.  I have seen this request before and was hoping it was improved on.
I switch STATUS a lot because I can't read the element in STATUS mode.  The font is small, white on a black background, 5,6,8 look alike. I think black on a light background would help.

There is a setting to not bother displaying the element status for contacts and coils (just display the contact/coil status, not element status).  This is in the Ladder options dialog - UNcheck the Show Element Status in Contacts/Coils checkbox.  When Unchecked, you get JUST the element text (no element status), but the contact or coil cyan color shows the "ACTIVE" state.

For box parameters, please use ZOOM IN.  The DPI on your monitor and your monitor size is more of the issue (we've tried many different font/color combinations).  The default settings look GREAT on some monitors and looks terrible on others (even the same sized monitor or laptop, although different quality).  That means it's an issue of your monitor/laptop display/and/or graphics card.  If they don't look good, do Ctrl+Scroll Mouse Wheel to easily change the zoom to make it the text more readable.

Also it would be nice to have an option for nicknames with status on.

Put your display in "Bob mode", which is turning OFF Element display, but turning ON Nickname display.  This causes the Nickname to be preferred over the Element text (the opposite is the default).  We can probably change that such that if there is a Nickname, always use it.  But in the mean time, try "Bob mode" (this affects normal ladder display, not just with status on.

[ERokc]

So far out of eight TMRDOWN instructions in my project only one in one code block does this. It doesn't matter if Designer was closed with that block displayed or not.  It will be in that block until I toggle status then it's gone.

If I close Designer with status off the problem does not return on next open.  If saved with status on it comes back until status is toggled.

If you mean "top ladder view" is the one displayed at the time? If so it doesn't matter. I can switch to any code block and back to the one in question and it's still there.

It's one of those defects that really doesn't matter as it still functions but you are probably like me, it bugs me that it's not right!  If you can't find it soon you should take my project and see what it does for yourself.

I did the ZOOM and will play with the other settings.  Zoom makes it readable at the cost of driving some of my long rungs off screen.  Oh well, I'll mooz when editing and zoom when troubleshooting.

[ERokc]

Update, in troubleshooting my code the problem has three different code blocks with the problem.  It's alive!

Please explain OPTIONS, LADDER, Default Zoom for New Views. I set it to 125%, I don't see a change and when I go back to options it's set back to 100%.  ZOOM seems to be block dependent. Is that correct?

[franji1]

Please explain OPTIONS, LADDER, Default Zoom for New Views. I set it to 125%, I don't see a change and when I go back to options it's set back to 100%.  ZOOM seems to be block dependent. Is that correct?

It is not for changing the currently opened views' zoom levels - it's for setting the Default zoom, i.e. when you open a new Ladder View (so make sure you check Apply to... New Views checkbox - that's probably why it is not set).  You always have complete control over any individual zoom via the Offline toolbar or via the Ctrl+Scroll Wheel (just like Internet Explorer).

The default zoom was always 100%, so if you have 50 year old eyes, or a bad monitor, you might want to set your default zoom to 125% (this is my default on Internet Explorer, and I have a good monitor  ).

[ERokc]

I'm guilty of asking for help before reading HELP.  I found the color selection and read the ZOOM function.
I have to complement your HELP for Designer.  It gives enough detail to understand how features function.  I especially like the examples.  I learn best by seeing it done.  You can't have too many examples.  They show me how to apply instructions.

Speaking of examples, is there example ladder logic somewhere that shows what kind of contacts can and cannot be used with continuous and edge power flow inputs? I find myself analyzing too many rungs not knowing if power has to be continuously applied or not and if an instruction is going to execute once or many times or not at all.

Thanks for your help.

[BobO]

Speaking of examples, is there example ladder logic somewhere that shows what kind of contacts can and cannot be used with continuous and edge power flow inputs? I find myself analyzing too many rungs not knowing if power has to be continuously applied or not and if an instruction is going to execute once or many times or not at all.

If it has a triangle on the input, it is clocked (edge triggered). If not, it is level and will run constantly. In cases like certain CTRIO instructions, the enable also doubles as a reset, usually indicated as "E/R" on the name tab. Those tend to be a combination of clock and level...when the initial firing of the instruction is clocked, but then becomes an enable once running. Instructions like counters run constantly regardless of "power flow", but the input itself is clocked. That's pretty much all you need to know.

Boxes that appear on the power rail (loops, for example) are always "powered".

Anything contained in a code block that is disabled (program, task, or disabled stage) is not executing...at all...regardless of apparent power flow.

[franji1]

Speaking of examples, is there example ladder logic somewhere that shows what kind of contacts can and cannot be used with continuous and edge power flow inputs? I find myself analyzing too many rungs not knowing if power has to be continuously applied or not and if an instruction is going to execute once or many times or not at all.

All contacts can be used with any/all types of box inputs.  HOWEVER, the desired behavior is what you need to analyze.  I can use a differential contact on a MATH instruction that has continuous input leg whenever I want to execute that MATH on an event (i.e. the OFF to ON transition of the mentioned contact).  I can also use a normal contact on a similar MATH instruction inside a SG that is only enabled for one scan and get the same result as a differential contact.

I don't think there are any "do it this way" set of rules, because the logic will do exactly what you told it to do, which should be based on what you need it to do.  That being said...

Basically, edge-triggers on boxes (the triangle clock symbol input leg) along with differential contacts are "events", vs. "continuous" power flow contacts and input legs are "provide any existing power" on this specific function on every scan.

Sadly, ladder logic is a little confusing, especially scan-to-scan "side effects" like edge-triggers.  I hope this helps.