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Author Topic: Run to Limit Mode...  (Read 26439 times)

Eric Nelson

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Run to Limit Mode...
« on: November 26, 2007, 07:39:56 PM »
I am trying to set up an H0-CTRIO in a "Run to Limit" mode. The "rising edge'" and "falling edge" detection doesn't seem to be working as I expected. I am dispensing labels off a roll, and have a sensor to detect the space between labels. If I set it as "rising edge", it will feed a label until the sensor just turns ON, which is correct. The problem is that it won't cycle again, because the sensor remains on. If I switch to "falling edge", it will feed until the sensor just turns OFF, but then won't cycle again, because the sensor remains off... :(

In other words, it works fine on a false to true transition if the input starts out in the OFF state, but does NOT work if the input is already true. Is this how it's designed to work? I feel it should look for ONLY the transition, and not care about the state of the input at the start of the cycle.

Maybe someone can help with another question. In my application, I would ideally like to use a profile exactly like one of the home search routines. The "Run to Limit 1 at Frequency 1, then continue to Count at Frequency 2" routine is EXACTLY what I need for my application, except that I need to be able to change the pulse frequency via V-memory in the PLC (I am matching the speed of a conveyor, which is variable). I had planned to use the "Automatic Trapezoidal Profile Program Example 2" program from the DL06 user manual, but my stepper drive requires 5V, so I couldn't use the HSIO in my D0-06DD2 PLC. That is the main reason why I purchased the HO-CTRIO card. As another solution, is it possible to switch from velocity control to position control 'on the fly' with the CTRIO? You are doing it with the home search routine, but is it possible to do using PLC control?

Thanks for any help with these questions,

-Eric

Greg

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Re: Run to Limit Mode...
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 01:28:44 PM »
Quote
I am trying to set up an H0-CTRIO in a "Run to Limit" mode. The "rising edge'" and "falling edge" detection doesn't seem to be working as I expected. I am dispensing labels off a roll, and have a sensor to detect the space between labels. If I set it as "rising edge", it will feed a label until the sensor just turns ON, which is correct. The problem is that it won't cycle again, because the sensor remains on. If I switch to "falling edge", it will feed until the sensor just turns OFF, but then won't cycle again, because the sensor remains off... :(

In other words, it works fine on a false to true transition if the input starts out in the OFF state, but does NOT work if the input is already true. Is this how it's designed to work? I feel it should look for ONLY the transition, and not care about the state of the input at the start of the cycle...

Unfortunately for your application, that is how it works. I assume by "cycle again" you mean that when you RESET EnableOutput and then SET it back, that you expect it to take off again. The problem is that the way Run-to-Limit was designed, when you SET EnableOutput and have selected "rising edge" the CTRIO looks at the Input and notices that you are already at the limit (i.e. the Input is HIGH), so it does nothing. In your application you evidently are wanting it to not care about the state of the CTRIO Input (Limit)... however, it DOES care.  :(  It was a design decision. We asked the question, "If I am already at the limit (i.e. HIGH), and I tell the motor to Run-To-Limit, then should the motor move? Or should it recognize it is already at the limit and do nothing?" Our answer was, "It should recognize it is already at the limit and do nothing".

Quote
Maybe someone can help with another question. In my application, I would ideally like to use a profile exactly like one of the home search routines. The "Run to Limit 1 at Frequency 1, then continue to Count at Frequency 2" routine is EXACTLY what I need for my application, except that I need to be able to change the pulse frequency via V-memory in the PLC (I am matching the speed of a conveyor, which is variable). I had planned to use the "Automatic Trapezoidal Profile Program Example 2" program from the DL06 user manual, but my stepper drive requires 5V, so I couldn't use the HSIO in my D0-06DD2 PLC. That is the main reason why I purchased the HO-CTRIO card.

Again, unfortunately, you cannot change the frequency of the Home Search profile on-the-fly. Depending, however, on just how variable the "speed of a conveyor" is, it is possible to configure several Home Search profiles (all having different Frequencies) and to load the appropriate one. In other words, if the conveyor has several selectable speeds (e.g. STOP, LOW, MED, HIGH), this would be possible. If, however, the conveyor is truly variable (e.g. controlled by a POT), then this would not work.

Quote
As another solution, is it possible to switch from velocity control to position control 'on the fly' with the CTRIO? You are doing it with the home search routine, but is it possible to do using PLC control?

No, this is not possible either. The only on-the-fly thing you could do is just to execute a Velocity Mode move and then a Run-to-Position Mode in sequence in ladders.

Please keep in mind that the CTRIO was not designed to be a true motion-control device; but rather it was designed to count pulses. Everything else it does is icing on the cake (so to speak). It's motion-control capabilities are limited and will fit many simple applications, but certainly not all.
There are two types of people in the world; those that can extrapolate from incomplete data sets.

Eric Nelson

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Re: Run to Limit Mode...
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 02:51:14 PM »
Thanks for all the info, Greg! It might be time to rethink my approach... :-\

The only on-the-fly thing you could do is just to execute a Velocity Mode move and then a Run-to-Position Mode in sequence in ladders.

The problem is that I have to make the change from velocity mode to position mode WITHOUT stopping between modes (exactly like the homing routine I noted in my first post). Before I waste time trying this, is it even possible?

Thanks again,

-Eric

Greg

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Re: Run to Limit Mode...
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 03:51:23 PM »
Again, no, not possible. There would certainly be a pause due to ladder logic code execution and scantime.   :(
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gregv7

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Re: Run to Limit Mode...
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 03:57:33 PM »
Hi Eric,
I am working on a similar project. I am applying labels to Tortilla chip bags as they move down a conveyor.  My main concern was the different label sizes not the speed of the labels being dispensed. I set up different home routines with all the same count frequency but the count to steps had to change with each different size label.
Maybe you could setup different count frequencies in the CTRIO and use an analog output card controlling a variable frequency drive that drives a three phase motor on your conveyor to match your label speed. Then all you would have to do is configure a recipe profile with the required parameters and have the operator select the speed he needs.
If I had more details about your project, cycles per minute, type of container being labeled, type of HMI being used, I may be able to be a better help.
I can send you a bare bones program that I wrote for my project if you are interested. I am using Directsoft 4 from Automation direct.
Good Luck!
Greg