Help us design our next Do-more platform!!

[Controls Guy]

Another thing to take into account, tmoulder, is that some guys LIKE to distribute responsibility with standalone motion controllers and so on.

I like to be able to offload the realtime processing of motion loop closure to a device dedicated to doing that.  Now if the expansion module has its own CPU and is in effect what I just described, just with better comms to the PLC and better mechanical integration, then great, but a lot of times I'm not going to want the CPU to try to close loops, especially multiple loops, on a microsecond basis like a dedicated standalone controller can do.

That's not to say the guys who want it integrated shouldn't get that as an option, but might be part of the reason mfgrs don't automatically do it onboard.

[cyounger]

Are you all going to replace the I/O cards with your own.  This way the cards are a base 10.  The D2-12TR cards are a good place to start 0-5 skipping 6&7 then 8-13 and skipping 14&15.  I really like where the stage has gone with the Domore and would love to see an improvement in the I/O for the 205 series or see  a 305 size rack system.
Thanks
Chris

[BobO]

Are you all going to replace the I/O cards with your own.  This way the cards are a base 10.  The D2-12TR cards are a good place to start 0-5 skipping 6&7 then 8-13 and skipping 14&15.  I really like where the stage has gone with the Domore and would love to see an improvement in the I/O for the 205 series or see  a 305 size rack system.
Thanks
Chris

The primary motivation for creating I/O cards on 8 point boundaries is actually due to the electronics themselves and data accessing. Koyo's decision to make their I/O memory octal was due to the modules being inherently octal, not the other way around. To change I/O modules to groups of 10 would increase the cost of the module and would actually result in a slight performance penalty in the I/O driver.

What do you see as the advantage of the 305 over the 205, that it's slightly larger and beefier?

[cyounger]

I like the size of the cards and the terminal screws.  The smaller Mitsubishi A series, old slick 500 series, and the 305.s were really a nice size to work with and around in an electrical cabinet.  The last input card I bought for a Do more 205 project one of the screws stripped out.  It is tough to find a small enough screw driver for the job and not to mention the size of the wire to fit into terminal. I really have liked the Do more like I said before and have changed over several machines already but the weak spot to me is with the cards other than that I like the product.

[BobO]

I like the size of the cards and the terminal screws.  The smaller Mitsubishi A series, old slick 500 series, and the 305.s were really a nice size to work with and around in an electrical cabinet.  The last input card I bought for a Do more 205 project one of the screws stripped out.  It is tough to find a small enough screw driver for the job and not to mention the size of the wire to fit into terminal. I really have liked the Do more like I said before and have changed over several machines already but the weak spot to me is with the cards other than that I like the product.

Have you used Terminator before? If so, what are your thoughts on the 5mm terminals on it?

[cyounger]

no I haven't used the terminator other than at training about 3-4 years ago I don't remember the size of the terminals. I did check them out today after my first post.  Looked like the terminator would raise my price of a plc system. I compared everything that I have in my current project and compared it to what I would need from the terminator.  Looked ok from what I could tell will have to try one and see.  Are the terminal screws bigger?  How about the construction is the terminator robust?

[BobO]

no I haven't used the terminator other than at training about 3-4 years ago I don't remember the size of the terminals. I did check them out today after my first post.  Looked like the terminator would raise my price of a plc system. I compared everything that I have in my current project and compared it to what I would need from the terminator.  Looked ok from what I could tell will have to try one and see.  Are the terminal screws bigger?  How about the construction is the terminator robust?

Terminator is definitely a bit more costly relative to the 205, but generally eliminates the need for external terminations that are often used with 205. I just mentioned it because it uses a terminal that is essentially the same as what we are proposing for the new platform. It is a 5mm euro style, not a barrier strip like the 305. I am not a big fan of the 205's high density terminal, but the low density one isn't bad...it just won't accommodate anything more than 8 points.

We like the euro style because the user will be able to choose screw or spring clamp. Spring clamps aren't as common in the US, but are very common in Europe and as I understand it, hold as well or better than screws. We like the idea of offering both.

[ATU]

It takes a little more engineering to plan out your wiring, but I prefer to use the spring clamps wherever I can.

[cyounger]

I have used several of the spring clamps, most of our equipment is from Europe. I do like them the best.

[deep6ixed]

I am not a big fan of the 205's high density terminal, but the low density one isn't bad...

Has anyone else had an issue where the plug for the high density terminals on the front of the I/O cards gets one of the contacts bent up and then doesn't make a connection? 

Now, I will say after working with European equipment, I've taken a liking to the spring clamps.  Most of our equipment is German or Austrian design and as much as Siemens is overpriced (IMHO), they do have some rather nice features.

I saw on here a suggestion for external memory like SD or USB, I have to second this.  With data collection now becoming a bigger part of process control, this is a must.

And some feedback on analog, after using analog on the DL250-1 Cpu, I can honestly say that the Do-More's analog features blow this thing out of the water.  We use the Do-More to control two DC drives to draw wire down from half inch to ordered size at 1200 ft a minute and with analog feedback, the machine can now detect when a die opens and shut the line downs, just by monitoring a minor 1% change in load, something that we couldn't do on the DL-250-1.

[Controls Guy]

Has anyone else had an issue where the plug for the high density terminals on the front of the I/O cards gets one of the contacts bent up and then doesn't make a connection?

I think I did have that issue one time, but I've used a LOT of 205's.  That one's hard to diagnose, easy to fix.

Not sure why they'd get that way in the first place.  I'd stock extra connectors so we could immediately start wiring as soon as design was done on a new project, when we might still not have the modules, then when the modules arrived, the wiring arms were already done, and you take the connector that comes with the module and it replaces the ones from spares.  So the extras were received loose and were stored in a bin.  Maybe something poked the contact while it was in the bin or maybe it was just a manufacturing defect, who knows.  Anyway, like I said, hard to diagnose, easy to fix.

[BobO]

I saw on here a suggestion for external memory like SD or USB, I have to second this.  With data collection now becoming a bigger part of process control, this is a must.

Plug-able is a bit harder when you run a bare metal processor (no OS) like we do on the DM1. If at some point in the future we go to some form of embedded OS (possible) it becomes much easier to support plug-able media.

The DM1 does have extra flash set aside for a small file system of 8 or 10MB. Not huge, but fine for logs and recipes. The file system itself has already been developed, but the instructions and DmD support was going to take more time than we were willing to spend prior to Rel 1. I've heard enough interest that I think we will get that into 2.0. It won't be as large or as convenient as an external card, but will be well integrated and we'll make a nice DmD utility for managing the content.

[jwbaker3]

I also prefer spring clamps. I do not like the 16 point cards on the 205, I have had the same problems with the clamp that makes contact on the card edge bending if not plugged on properly. I had to travel 1200 miles to work on a system because the customer unplugged the cards trying to troubleshoot the system and did not get them plugged back in right. (8 hours downtime and a large bill) They are also a pain to wire even with small wire, and harder with larger wire. (some of my customers require 16ga MTW as the min wire size) I like the screw connectors on the 05/06 option cards OK the Terminator better and the Terminator spring clamp best. Don't forget selectable analog.

Thanks,
JW

[BobO]

I also prefer spring clamps. I do not like the 16 point cards on the 205, I have had the same problems with the clamp that makes contact on the card edge bending if not plugged on properly. I had to travel 1200 miles to work on a system because the customer unplugged the cards trying to troubleshoot the system and did not get them plugged back in right. (8 hours downtime and a large bill) They are also a pain to wire even with small wire, and harder with larger wire. (some of my customers require 16ga MTW as the min wire size) I like the screw connectors on the 05/06 option cards OK the Terminator better and the Terminator spring clamp best.

It looks like 5mm removable euro style will be what we use on the brick and on 8 point modules. For 16 point, we will have to go to 3.5mm, which is what is used on DL05/06 option cards and Click. I'm pretty sure that spring clamp versions are available for both the 5mm and 3.5mm sockets. Not sure how ADC will handle it, but current thought is to let customer specify which they want at purchase time, although they may just sell the terminals separate as a 'goes with' type part.

Don't forget selectable analog.

So am I understanding you correctly JW, you want 'selectable analog', right?

[jwbaker3]

YES! I Do!