Please tell us what your experience has been with Do-more...

[Controls Guy]

Excellent idea.  Host them on YouTube or somewhere generic so we can access them from phones, tablets, etc., when we're not running Designer, and just put links in the Start Page.

[pioplastic]

I have used the Do-More cpu on several projects now and love it. I think the "MATH" box is a real time (and code) saver. Used to have to input several rungs of code to do simple math functions. All of the improvements over DirectSoft are awesome. My last project had 100 complicated recipes, data logging, Modbus, ethernet, and PID loops for motor control. The project took about half the programming time. Keep up the great work! For future improvements, add a "SMOOTH" box to do moving average smoothing on lumpy data.

[BobO]

I have used the Do-More cpu on several projects now and love it. I think the "MATH" box is a real time (and code) saver. Used to have to input several rungs of code to do simple math functions. All of the improvements over DirectSoft are awesome. My last project had 100 complicated recipes, data logging, Modbus, ethernet, and PID loops for motor control. The project took about half the programming time. Keep up the great work!

Thanks for the kind words. One of the most common comments we get is how much smaller code gets. I love hearing that because I know from my 25 years experience that 'smaller' isn't just more efficient, it's less buggy and much easier to maintain in the future.

For future improvements, add a "SMOOTH" box to do moving average smoothing on lumpy data.

Already there...it's called FILTER.

[jwbaker3]

I just completed a retro-fit of a 35 year old purged gas electric heat treating furnace. We did one of there about 8 years ago with a DL205/260, this one I used a Do More processor. I started from scratch just to see how the engineering/programming time would compare. I did not write the first one and this one has more recipes/curves than the first one. It took about 25% of the time to complete!! Also a BIG kudos on the PID look tuning. I gave up on the DL260 and just tuned them by hand, I gave the Do More a shot and it nailed it first time (as good or better than I could have done in less time)
Keep up the good work!!

Thanks,
JW

[Mike Nash]

OBSERVATIONS - Do-more Designer 1.3.1

We recently purchased a Do-more H2-DM1E to get acquainted with. I admit to waiting until it had a little maturity as I have tired of that bleeding edge stuff. Hopefully we will be getting a PO for a job with a very good fit shortly. We usually get very little time to play with new products before they have to be installed and running and the last "good fit" had too short a window to want to attempt it.

Firstly, note that I am loving this new processor and it's capabilities and I am fully aware the programming software is made available for free. Therefore, the following are just observations and my experiences (and implied hopes.)

Zoom Level with 1.3.1 in XP 32bit most always goes to 35% regardless of what is selected. Zoom In and Zoom Out work OK as does the mouse wheel. I have had it work OK intermittently.

System Variables should be user describable and should be shown in Documentation Editor. This one is important to me as it can be more verbose.

I'm not real wild about the auto "clean" of unreferenced elements in Documentation Editor. I added them so why are they being deleted?

Please, please do something to make the ladder elements/nicknames actually large enough to read when status is on. Zoom level must be ridiculous to actually see the element.
Yes I have played with the fonts in the .ini file but have not seen a helpful change. Also note that many of us using the software are out on a plant floor with a laptop, usually of ridiculously poor resolution due to the move to consumer video format, and no second monitor. I do field service, short notice at times so this is the norm.

In ladder status, why is the number of decimal places less than in Data View, and at least for a timer accumulator, gaining an extra digit when it is zero?

If a timer, counter, etc. has a description or extra info, it would be really, really nice to have this automatically be used as the default pass-thru for the .Done bits, etc. But they should still be over-writable if desired.

Can't drag icons off the tool bar if they are greyed out when trying to customize.

I would like to be able to select how timer time presets and accumulators are displayed, sometimes the expanded format is clunky and sometimes it is nice, but it depends on the application. A quick way to toggle would be even better. OK, I can set it as a constant mS in variable location but it still shows expanded in ladder

I would prefer the Cross Reference (and pop up cross reference) to show rungs and not addresses which are meaningless to me.

I NEED User Structs. I need to mix and match data types in those structs. For instance, I have 20 VFDs that I want to have access to via Modbus. I really don't want them spread all over a data table. On the other hand, I can't even create a data table named VFD01 and another named VFD02, etc., as that is not allowed. Even if it were, I am stuck with casting the bits, etc. Arrays might work, but... that's a whole 'nother layer of obsfucation.

When starting a new project, any caps in the filename are replaced with lower case. What a pain. (DirectSoft does this also.) It does not do this with Save As.

There is no way to create new nicknames in the LERP instruction Input or Output Points. This may be true elsewhere too, I haven't stopped to record everything I found "glitchy".

It's very vague where nicknames are going to be shown versus elements. This pretty much blows up the whole "tagname" argument. See the LERP instruction for an example. Well I maybe found this in the options but...

If you just move to the output column of a rung and begin typing a new nickname, it gets entered all in upper case as if you are typing an instruction, which is baaaad.

The variable width toolbar icons, due to spelling out things like "Previous" etc., eat up a lot of real estate. Frankly the old small (only selectable in the .INI file) icons in DS4 were far, far better. I hated having to remember to edit the .INI, but I hate losing the DS4 small icons even more. The DS4 icons are much clearer, cleaner and less blobby - intuitive even   Yes, the large icons are pretty but they do not scale and they steal valuable screen space. Without the text on, I can't make heads or tails what the small icons are even supposed to be.

A TMR in $Main does not reset to zero when transitioned from RUN to PROG and back to RUN! Huh?

Nicknamed timers do not show up in the auto complete pick box for contacts! They have to be fully typed or use the element.

RANDINT and RANDREAL are just begging for parameters - e.g. RANDREAL(2.50,7.50) to scale the value to those two endpoints (Also RANDREAL(R0,R1) ) inclusive.
LERP works, but is not elegant in this situation. (LERP is Fabulous in itself however!)

In the Ladder display, a SET coil under an MRX (or other) box is not right justified.

Right Click menu "Delete" will not delete an unassigned nickname in Documentation Editor, <Delete> key will.

MAPIO dialog box highlighting just seems backwards. The dark blue should be the selected field. I am having alot of trouble making my head work with this. It would also be much preferred if I could simply cursor down the inputs and outputs rather than have to hit <Enter> and it goes right or CR/LF. If I have a pattern of in and out addresses it is far, far easier to do the patterns downwards than shift gears back and forth. Double <Enter> works I guess, but then there is the wrong highlighting screwing me up.  Same thing in Documentation Editor. Excel lets you pick default behavior, hint, hint.

Firmware updates are easy enough to download, but it is unclear when they are completed. It seems you have to do it twice at times to get them all, but the Go! button never grays out.

Once you have downloaded the firmware updates, how do you install them? The help file index for "Update Firmware" opens Password Configuration instead. I finally found where to Update the Processor firmware, Live Update DID NOT take me there after the download and I only got hints from the help file where to find it.

The help files need a lot of "help". Check out the UDC instruction:
 ".Done - (Read-only) if the instruction is configured to use an Up Preset, is ON any time the value in the Counter structure's accumulator (.Acc) is less than or equal to the Up Preset value"

Why are all the items in the Project Browser that you can't do anything with, e.g. Memory? Right click context for them is just generic with too many items anyway. A double click just takes you to the top of the tree. A double click should maybe take me to the configuration for that memory block. (You guys seem Siemensie, I have to keep looking these terms up - i.e. rather than Data Table   )

Can we disable the Element Browser? I hate that thing. It is always popping up when I am trying to mouse click focus on a field (Yeah, yeah, Microsoft mystery click count.) I hate it, I hate it and I find it worse than useless. (That's kind of strong and others probably love it, but it has never clicked with me.)

If you inadvertently start a rung edit (way too easy when just trying to move around) and you <Esc> to get out, you have to select "No" to cancel the changes and this drops you out of edit mode - what a pain. (Yes it has done that forever in DS also and it's a pain there too.) And it ALWAYS says rungs have been changed even if nothing has been.

Trying to right click add a rung data view does not add anything except contacts and COILS, no MOVE contents, MATH contents, etc. Further, every addition is a new data view window. Can we get everything and just add it to an open data view? It's cool, but kind of useless as is. I am far more interested in the numbers, not the bits and I want them all at once and together. Closing all those extra data views is tedious too because I 'x' it and then have to move the mouse over to tell it not to save it.

If I enter a contact DLV10100:1 on a new rung, then select it, then <Ctrl><D> it doesn't take me there (it doesn't even exist?). DLV10100 already exists and is used as is DLV10100:0 (with a nickname for it even). If I complete the rung and Accept it, then <Ctrl><D> takes me there. Again DLV10100:1 ought to pass-thru the description (if not the nickname) for DLV10100.

Is there anyway to easily (hot key or icon) toggle the nickname view on or off? Many of the instruction boxes only display the element or the nickname and nickname wins if it is on. This is fine, but I need to be able to quickly toggle them off and on to see the element (address). BTW, where is the list of hot keys? I looked all through the help.

I haven't checked, but I am guessing documentation changes are saved as they are entered   Is there anyway to change this behavior? It's all very well to be able to undo ladder changes, but if the annotation is not undone also... Or if I start making changes, I can't simply abort because annotation _has_ been changed. I always found this to be an issue with DirectSoft because it WAS going to change file timestamps simply because you opened it to view. Well, I just checked part of this. Changing a rung comment is now a program change that wants to be saved/written before exiting. Selecting No then closing DMD does delete the comment as it is not there when reopened. And now I have found what the S P D are at the bottom of the screen, so I think I am cool with this.

Subroutines! We need subroutines! I need to know the logic is going to run and it's going to run NOW when it is called. Everything else is just not the same. I am not going to claim I have tons of programs that need to be converted, but I frequently use subs to keep them out of the way until needed, but when they are called, it is because I need an answer, I need it now, and I don't need a bunch of code repeated multiple times, because I need the solution it provides right NOW! Plus editing multiple instances just stinks. Passing parameters is wonderful, but it is the icing on the cake.

Stages may be great, but they really don't fit my needs so well. For me, everything is happening all the time and together, if it's not, something bad is happening. So I have a lot of math going on, fast response PIDs, operator interface, some turret indexing that _could_ be done in stage, maybe (but probably not), occasionally some recipes. Subroutines, or Functions or Add on Instructions are great for handling VF or DC drives, load cells, dancers, any place there is more than one instance of a real world device. Function Block Diagrams are handy too.

I have not been able to setup the PLC Link via ethernet. I was able to set up the IP address with a serial cable and manually setup a Link to connect via ethernet and that is it. The Do-more simply does not show up, period. This is with two different computers. Both will connect with the manually configured link using the assigned IP address. And NetEdit3 shows nothing but an ECOM in a D0-06.

Just so you know I DO LIKE THE Do-more:

ModbusRTU comms to 20 VFDs is very nice even at just 38,400 baud (I was subbing the Do-more in for a D2-260 (only 38,400 max) as a test and did not have time to up everything to 115,200 to test it. Reading 9 registers from 20 drives was completing in less than a second, maybe closer to 1/2 a second or better (my sense of time is iffy.) I should have set up a timer, but I was just eyeballing a counter counting successes to one of the 20 drives. I wish I had had the time to test further, but they needed to ship the panel. The help on the MRX instruction does not really mention that no manual interlocking is needed (read that on the forum), just pop in a SETUPSER and 20 MRXs and you are done. I did have some interlocks in case a VFD was not enabled (or if it did not answer I skipped it for awhile.) I set the timeout for the built-in serial port to 200mS and I could see the counter hesitate that long and then resume "clicking" away.

I have only gotten to play with ModbusTCP to one device so far but it is SWEET. I recently did a D2-260, ECOM100 and 7 ModbusTCP devices, I had to set my ladder watchdog to 5 seconds to prevent 'false' timeouts. It was anything but sweet. Yes I did ask about this on the HostEng forum and it is as nice as I was told.

The DELTA instruction is very nice, no need to remember the previous value now for some situations.

Wow, I just "discovered" the Launchpad flyout. I _like_ the Windows shortcuts provided. And YES, I just found how to add/edit them in the DmDesigner1_3.INI file. Nice.

There are many more nice things too, but finding problems is what I do for a living, so they bubble to the top first.

Thanks, it's a great product and I hope it gets even better. Oh yea, and gets migrated to the D0-06 size (price?) platform too.

[franji1]

OBSERVATIONS - Do-more Designer 1.3.1

Thanks for the great feedback Mike!  We will digest them and get back to you (we are currently working on a number of these already).

[franji1]

Zoom Level with 1.3.1 in XP 32bit most always goes to 35% regardless of what is selected. Zoom In and Zoom Out work OK as does the mouse wheel. I have had it work OK intermittently

Make sure the default zoom level is set to 100% (or whatever you want) in your Ladder Options page.  Make sure you check New Views in the Apply Options to checkbox list at the top of the Ladder Options page.  See the attached screen shot DefaultZoom.png.  This does NOT change the zoom level of the current view, just the default zoom level when a Ladder View is first opened (you already know about the Ctrl+Scroll Mousewheel, along with the Zoom level on the toolbar).

Can't drag icons off the tool bar if they are greyed out when trying to customize.

Select View->Toolbars->Customize... to bring up the Customize dialog.  When that dialog is up, all the buttons of the current toolbar set should be "enabled" and you should be able to remove (add, rename, etc.) buttons.  See the attached screen shot CustomizeToolbar.png.

It's very vague where nicknames are going to be shown versus elements. This pretty much blows up the whole "tagname" argument. See the LERP instruction for an example. Well I maybe found this in the options but...

When enabled in the Ladder Options settings, Nicknames will be displayed in addition to the Element for the FIRST parameter.  For instructions with more than 1 parameter, the Nickname will be preferred over the Element text in the Ladder Display (if one exists).  In 1.3 we added the option for the Ladder Instruction Editor to prefer the Nickname over the Element Text in the edit field when entering the editor.  LERP editor/display may have issues - we will look at it.

The variable width toolbar icons, due to spelling out things like "Previous" etc., eat up a lot of real estate. Frankly the old small (only selectable in the .INI file) icons in DS4 were far, far better. I hated having to remember to edit the .INI, but I hate losing the DS4 small icons even more. The DS4 icons are much clearer, cleaner and less blobby - intuitive even.  Yes, the large icons are pretty but they do not scale and they steal valuable screen space. Without the text on, I can't make heads or tails what the small icons are even supposed to be.

Agreed - screen real-estate tradeoffs are always a big concern.  You can change the text for any toolbar button by bringing up the View->Toolbars->Customize... toolbar dialog, then right clicking on the actual button on the toolbar, then editing the text (abbreviate as needed or create your own terminology or ?).  You can toggle the size of the buttons via the Customize toolbar dialog, select the Options tab, then UNcheck the Large Icons checkbox below the Other group.

Is there anyway to easily (hot key or icon) toggle the nickname view on or off? Many of the instruction boxes only display the element or the nickname and nickname wins if it is on. This is fine, but I need to be able to quickly toggle them off and on to see the element (address).

Use the XRef tooltip.  Just float your cursor over the nickname and the tooltip will show you the element name (and Nickname, along with the XRef/Usage info).  The element text is not even a mouse click away .

[Controls Guy]

The DS4 icons are much clearer, cleaner and less blobby - intuitive even  

I HATED the DS5 icons.  IMO, they bordered on a crime against nature, not only because they were so ugly, but more importantly because they were so muddy and hard to decipher.  I called Host specifically to complain how much of a downgrade they were vs the DS4 icons.

As far as I'm concerned, the DM icons are a **HUGE** improvement over both DS4 and DS5 (especially DS5 obviously), both esthetically and for readability.

NOTE: Edited to refer to the DS versions that I was actually talking about.

[franji1]

FYI, even the toolbar button graphics are editable from the Customize toolbar dialog.  Just right click on the specific button when that dialog is up, and select Edit Button Image menu.  Same is true with DirectSOFT Rel 5.

[Controls Guy]

Sorry, Mike, I remembered the incident but I was one rev off.  I liked the DS4 ones too (though not as well as the DM ones).  It was the DS5 ones that I hated and also couldn't read, and that I complained so vociferously about.

Good to know, franji1, I had no idea you could edit icon graphics.  Very cool!   

[Mike Nash]

Zoom Level with 1.3.1 in XP 32bit most always goes to 35% regardless of what is selected. Zoom In and Zoom Out work OK as does the mouse wheel. I have had it work OK intermittently

Make sure the default zoom level is set to 100% (or whatever you want) in your Ladder Options page.  Make sure you check New Views in the Apply Options to checkbox list at the top of the Ladder Options page.  See the attached screen shot DefaultZoom.png.  This does NOT change the zoom level of the current view, just the default zoom level when a Ladder View is first opened (you already know about the Ctrl+Scroll Mousewheel, along with the Zoom level on the toolbar).

Can't drag icons off the tool bar if they are greyed out when trying to customize.

Select View->Toolbars->Customize... to bring up the Customize dialog.  When that dialog is up, all the buttons of the current toolbar set should be "enabled" and you should be able to remove (add, rename, etc.) buttons.  See the attached screen shot CustomizeToolbar.png.

It's very vague where nicknames are going to be shown versus elements. This pretty much blows up the whole "tagname" argument. See the LERP instruction for an example. Well I maybe found this in the options but...

When enabled in the Ladder Options settings, Nicknames will be displayed in addition to the Element for the FIRST parameter.  For instructions with more than 1 parameter, the Nickname will be preferred over the Element text in the Ladder Display (if one exists).  In 1.3 we added the option for the Ladder Instruction Editor to prefer the Nickname over the Element Text in the edit field when entering the editor.  LERP editor/display may have issues - we will look at it.

The variable width toolbar icons, due to spelling out things like "Previous" etc., eat up a lot of real estate. Frankly the old small (only selectable in the .INI file) icons in DS4 were far, far better. I hated having to remember to edit the .INI, but I hate losing the DS4 small icons even more. The DS4 icons are much clearer, cleaner and less blobby - intuitive even.  Yes, the large icons are pretty but they do not scale and they steal valuable screen space. Without the text on, I can't make heads or tails what the small icons are even supposed to be.

Agreed - screen real-estate tradeoffs are always a big concern.  You can change the text for any toolbar button by bringing up the View->Toolbars->Customize... toolbar dialog, then right clicking on the actual button on the toolbar, then editing the text (abbreviate as needed or create your own terminology or ?).  You can toggle the size of the buttons via the Customize toolbar dialog, select the Options tab, then UNcheck the Large Icons checkbox below the Other group.

Is there anyway to easily (hot key or icon) toggle the nickname view on or off? Many of the instruction boxes only display the element or the nickname and nickname wins if it is on. This is fine, but I need to be able to quickly toggle them off and on to see the element (address).

Use the XRef tooltip.  Just float your cursor over the nickname and the tooltip will show you the element name (and Nickname, along with the XRef/Usage info).  The element text is not even a mouse click away .

I'm sorry, but multi-part quoting looks a bit tedious from this end.

The zoom issue is only when using the zoom level icon, once clicked, regardless of which zoom level is selected, it goes to 35%.

The grayed out icons thing did happen, but I can't reproduce it now. Strange.

The icon appearance editing is cool. Is there an easy way to import the DS4 icons in wholesale or even one by one? How about a DS4 icon mode 'old-farts' tick-box? It would make us happy and less grumpy. 

The XRef tooltip is good, but I would still be tickled to be able to toggle ALL displayed nicknames off/on with a keystroke or icon because sometimes I am visually "copying/translating" from one program to another and tooltip is too slow for that.

Again, the product is great, but I've learned to get my wishes in while the development is still flexible. Hopefully I didn't wait too long this time.

[Mike Nash]

Well, well. Right clicking on a button on the toolbar after you have the Customize window open has LOTS of options, including my favorite icons of all "Text Only"! Unless I am missing something, I had to do them all individually, but I am AOK with that for now. But while I am OK, I would still vote for a universal "Text Only" option in the Customize menu. Going all text also shrinks the toolbar vertically!

BTW, clicking Help in the Customize window gives a "Failed to launch Help!" message.

I am seriously pleased with text only. I know when I don't care for something visually, but I have absolutely no ability to design anything graphical, whatsoever, ever, if you catch my drift.

[Mike Nash]

Sorry, Mike, I remembered the incident but I was one rev off.  I liked the DS4 ones too (though not as well as the DM ones).  It was the DS5 ones that I hated and also couldn't read, and that I complained so vociferously about.

Good to know, franji1, I had no idea you could edit icon graphics.  Very cool!   

I disliked the DS5 icons so much I stayed with DS4. I finally figured out what was hosing my comments though. Opening a DS5 file containing I-Boxes with DS4 is a seriously bad mistake. Since DS immediately writes documentation changes to file, and the rungs are hosed due to unknown instructions, boom, busted comments. I have learned to open temporary copies.

Of course, now this very minute I find out you can edit DS5 icons the same way. AARGHH, hooray!!, AARGHHH, hooray!!

I've got to go change my filename associations from DS4 to DS5 and be happy. I like DS5's docking stuff, I just hated the icons.

Thanks franji1 and Controls Guy!

[plcnut]

I turn off all the toolbars, and have learned to use keyboard shortcuts. I'm a slow learner, but once I got the common ones memorized, it is a lot faster, and I have lots more screen real estate.

[Mike Nash]

Just playing around a little. I can get a nice DS4 icon in DMD, but I don't see an option for editing the grayed out version.