Please tell us what your experience has been with Do-more...

[Controls Guy]

Also added expansion of simple ranges. Might have already mentioned that, but don't think I posted pics. Note C0 through C10...

That's VERY cool -- kudos! 

[BobO]

Also added expansion of simple ranges. Might have already mentioned that, but don't think I posted pics. Note C0 through C10...

That's VERY cool -- kudos! 

The compromise that allowed it to happen was making it optional and limiting it to simple types (C0-C100 vs D0:12-D10:31). The 'Ex' button toggles it on and off, and the default can be set in 'Options...'. For you guys that use this stuff reasonably, it will work just fine. And for the folks that do fringe stuff, it can be turned off for performance.

[LWgreys]

Let me say that the Do-More PLC is a big jump over the DL205. The ability to costume the memory, use of nicknames, Programs and Tasks, faster timers (1/1000 of a second), PID view to name a few of the many features. What I really like are the System Tasks. I have been using the $TopOfScan and $BottomOfScan to add in ladder logic that emulates my actual hardware with no I/O pluged in (just the Do-More processor and a C-more display). I just configure simulator memory for the Vs, Cs, and Ts that I need to emulate the equipment and can run the program logic as if it were the actual equipment. Of course the simulation part has to by correct to work right.

Only complaint is the memory size limit on strings. I need 26 4k strings for the next part of the project upgrade. Maybe if you came out with a memory expansion module with a few megs of memory.

Good work guys!

PS! Need an option for XRef to switch between instruction address to rung address.

[tonybach]

Love the Do-more.  Wish it fit my 405 chassis w/ 450s.  It would be nice if the Trending was taken one step further and could sample at 1/sec, 1/min, etc. and record all my PLC data in column format with a time stamp.  That way I could get rid of LABView's Industrial Process Monitoring and OPC servers and all the hassle for data acquisition.  It seems that the current Trend view is pretty close to a full blown data acquisition system.  Just needs a user adjustable sample rate and formatting. 

[BobO]

Love the Do-more.  Wish it fit my 405 chassis w/ 450s.  It would be nice if the Trending was taken one step further and could sample at 1/sec, 1/min, etc. and record all my PLC data in column format with a time stamp.  That way I could get rid of LABView's Industrial Process Monitoring and OPC servers and all the hassle for data acquisition.  It seems that the current Trend view is pretty close to a full blown data acquisition system.  Just needs a user adjustable sample rate and formatting. 

DL405 is a hard thing due to it being very mature. We do get occasional requests though, all retrofit. Makes me wonder how much is out there, but still pretty afraid of doing a design in search of a market.

The trend view idea sounds pretty useful. For a possible near term workaround, look into DMLogger. You can use a STREAMOUT instruction on the @DMLogger device to push data into the DMLogger app (DmLogger.exe in your Bin directory) which you can save to a file. We also have the source available for the app, so it can be modified to do whatever you want.

[Controls Guy]

Wouldn't mind seeing a 405 SIZED system (16-pt I/O modules with big terminals, 32-pt maybe with small terminals, and 32- and 64-pt using connectors).

That's been a popular form factor for a lot of PLC manufacturers over the last 20-25 years.

But to reuse the 405 itself at this date?  Nah.

[ATU]

With the footprint of that beast, you could probably put in a 205 Domore and might still have room for the Ziplinks with angled brackets.

[tonybach]

BOB: "DL405 is a hard thing due to it being very mature. We do get occasional requests though, all retrofit. Makes me wonder how much is out there, but still pretty afraid of doing a design in search of a market." 

The DL405 being very mature means there are a lot of systems out there.  If companies could upgrade the 405 chassis with the Do-more brain it would be a win/win.  They can use the existing 405 modules which handle higher current/channel counts and not have to re-wire existing systems.  Also, for engine/gearbox testing we use the F4-08MPI for measuring RPMs from hall effect sensors (magnetic pickups).  With such a tiny milli-volt signal you can't use the CTRIO for RPM measurement, thus the 405.  We are still buying 405s. I believe a lot of companies would buy new 405s with a Do-more brain for the processing power, high current/channel count and ease of wiring.  There has got to be a ton of existing 405s that would love a new brain!  We sure would.

BOB: "The trend view idea sounds pretty useful. For a possible near term workaround, look into DMLogger. You can use a STREAMOUT instruction on the @DMLogger device to push data into the DMLogger app (DmLogger.exe in your Bin directory) which you can save to a file. We also have the source available for the app, so it can be modified to do whatever you want."

The DMLogger formats all the data from multiple channels in one column.  Data acquisition systems have the channel data in separate columns across the top and a time stamp along the side.  Also, DMLogger is limited to 10000 records.  We record data 24/7 for some tests.  If you could e-mail me the source code, I would like to at least look at it and see if anything could be done.

Man, the Trend View is awesome...it is soooo close to being a great data acquisition system...just needs a button to select the sample rate and the format of each channel across the top in columns (with a nickname column header) and the time stamp along the side.

Thanks for your awesome products and service.  ttK (to the King!)

[dmoyer]

BobO,

Although I'm very impressed with the (advertised) capabilities of the H2-DM1E and DM Designer SW, I've experienced many difficulties understanding the programming language.  The "Help" files were obviously written by the designers/programmers who are too close to the details to be objective and thorough.  You need a 2nd party to do a design review and edit on the entire Help text (using a word processor to do the index is unacceptable).

The support (via Email) has been impressive!  Thank you.  Taking care of the issues I mention above will greatly lighten your load and allow you to do even more impressive things.

I chose Do-more for it's powerful capabilities and the power of the software structures.  I'm confident that your product will resolve the challenges my customers present to me, but the "learning curve" is killing me.

Dave Moyer

[Controls Guy]

What aspects are you having trouble with?  About the only thing I found potentially treacherous was trying to understand under what circumstances logic in Programs and Tasks would recognize a change of state (like a leading edge of an internal relay for example), and that's something you can learn by test and experiment.

You can also post on here with questions, and get help not only from Host people but from other users who are learning along with you.

[BobO]

BobO,

Although I'm very impressed with the (advertised) capabilities of the H2-DM1E and DM Designer SW, I've experienced many difficulties understanding the programming language.  The "Help" files were obviously written by the designers/programmers who are too close to the details to be objective and thorough.  You need a 2nd party to do a design review and edit on the entire Help text (using a word processor to do the index is unacceptable).

The support (via Email) has been impressive!  Thank you.  Taking care of the issues I mention above will greatly lighten your load and allow you to do even more impressive things.

I chose Do-more for it's powerful capabilities and the power of the software structures.  I'm confident that your product will resolve the challenges my customers present to me, but the "learning curve" is killing me.

Dave Moyer

I'm sorry you've found it difficult to learn and found the help system inadequate. Host is a pretty small company with limited resources, and at this time it is simply not possible to contract an outside entity to re-develop the help system.

There are a number of other resources available however: a) AutomationDirect's Do-more manual, b) a number of informative videos provided by AutomationDirect, c) a free subscription to Interconnecting Automation's training videos, and d) the Start Page in Designer. Have you made use of these other resources, and if so, can you give me some more specific information about what areas we should emphasize?

[plcnut]

BobO,
I have been quite impressed with DMD's help file. It has had nearly everything I've needed to know (as long as I stay away from the far corners of the envelope ).
I too would be curious what dmoyer was unable to find there.

[BobO]

BobO,
I have been quite impressed with DMD's help file. It has had nearly everything I've needed to know (as long as I stay away from the far corners of the envelope ).
I too would be curious what the dmoyer was unable to find there.

Since when have you stayed away from the corners?!?

It was always my vision that there be two primary sources of documentation: 1) a manual and 2) a help system. The manual was to be more high level, focusing on the how-to...what instructions you used and why, and how to put it all together. The help system was intended to be the details of how each instruction worked and what its parameters did. This philosophy was borne out of the type of documentation you find for compilers. The help documents the key points about the tools and programming APIs, but doesn't teach you how to be a software developer.

Since ADC developed the manual and Host developed the help system, it didn't happen quite like I hoped, and the manual ended up as something different than I had envisioned. Although what ADC created was needed, we still don't have a "Teach Yourself to Program Do-more in 21 Days" and I think we need that. Once you get through that process, most folks seem to really enjoy Do-more...but...we'd be lying to ourselves if we think that process isn't difficult for some people, depending on the type of experience they have. I really wish we had a better way to get the "light to turn on" faster...because once it does turn on, the largest majority love Do-more.

[plcnut]

Since when have you stayed away from the corners?!?

Ummm... If you could just see what I am working on now...

I do think it would be great for someone to put together an online (or offline) tutorial with keystrokes and screenshots of an entire project that someone could sit down and follow at their desk, and then actually watch it work on the simulator.
 
It should include:
1) At least one properly implemented PROGRAM without STAGES.
2) At least one properly implemented PROGRAM with STAGES.
3) At least one properly implemented TASK.
4) STRPRINTS with several data types being formatted into visually useful data.
5) STREAMOUTS to DmLogger so the data can be viewed.
6) MATH illustrating Boolean logic (RLL encapsulated in MATH).
7) MATH illustrating standard mathematical equations.
A FOR/NEXT loop.


Optional:
1) A properly structured Program that could open, receive, send, and then close a MODBUS device.
2) A properly structured Program that could open, send and/or receive data from a TCP server.

[BobO]

Since when have you stayed away from the corners?!?

Ummm... If you could just see what I am working on now...

I can only imagine. Your projects make me feel better about my product, and at the same time, scare the poo outta me.

I do think it would be great for someone to put together an online (or offline) tutorial with keystrokes and screenshots of an entire project that someone could sit down and follow at their desk, and then actually watch it work on the simulator.
 
It should include:
1) At least one properly implemented PROGRAM without STAGES.
2) At least one properly implemented PROGRAM with STAGES.
3) At least one properly implemented TASK.
4) STRPRINTS with several data types being formatted into visually useful data.
5) STREAMOUTS to DmLogger so the data can be viewed.
6) MATH illustrating Boolean logic (RLL encapsulated in MATH).
7) MATH illustrating standard mathematical equations.
A FOR/NEXT loop.


Optional:
1) A properly structured Program that could open, receive, send, and then close a MODBUS device.
2) A properly structured Program that could open, send and/or receive data from a TCP server.

I think that is an excellent idea. I would love them to be videos and readily accessible from the Start Page.