X-ref view

[plcnut]

Can you make the cross references refresh when the program accept button is pressed? Right now I have to accept and then click on the ladder before it updates(in usage mode).

Also, in Xref view, if I click on the ladder it will automatically display the xref for that element(this is good), if I double click another reference to the same element in the Xref(I would expect it to take me to that reference in the ladder, But...), it could take me anywhere(this is bad).

This is an extra: Is there any possibility that the Xref could be scrolled WHILE an object on the screen is being edited? I frequently have to close a half filled out Box instruction with false values, so that I can scroll through the Xref to find the next unused memory location in a different area of the controller.

[BobO]

Can you make the cross references refresh when the program accept button is pressed? Right now I have to accept and then click on the ladder before it updates(in usage mode).

It updates for me. I've tried F8 and clicking the Accept toolbar button. How exactly are you doing this?

Also, in Xref view, if I click on the ladder it will automatically display the xref for that element(this is good), if I double click another reference to the same element in the Xref(I would expect it to take me to that reference in the ladder, But...), it could take me anywhere(this is bad).

Not sure if I'm understanding. Is there is specific change you are requesting?

This is an extra: Is there any possibility that the Xref could be scrolled WHILE an object on the screen is being edited? I frequently have to close a half filled out Box instruction with false values, so that I can scroll through the Xref to find the next unused memory location in a different area of the controller.

Instruction editing is a modal operation...and has been for ever...and it would scare the crap out of me to make it modeless. But I may have a better answer. If you minimally use nicknames for your internal values, we can do this for you. Just type a new nickname into the field and accept the instruction. We will prompt you with a dialog that give your several options. One of the options is to allocate the next unused element of a specified type. For internal variables, that is the only way I roll.

[BobO]

This might also be a good time to mention that when you are on an element, you can press Ctrl^+ and Ctrl^- to cycle through all of the references to the element under the cursor. Very handy.

[plcnut]

Can you make the cross references refresh when the program accept button is pressed? Right now I have to accept and then click on the ladder before it updates(in usage mode).

It updates for me. I've tried F8 and clicking the Accept toolbar button. How exactly are you doing this?

Also, in Xref view, if I click on the ladder it will automatically display the xref for that element(this is good), if I double click another reference to the same element in the Xref(I would expect it to take me to that reference in the ladder, But...), it could take me anywhere(this is bad).

Not sure if I'm understanding. Is there is specific change you are requesting?

This is an extra: Is there any possibility that the Xref could be scrolled WHILE an object on the screen is being edited? I frequently have to close a half filled out Box instruction with false values, so that I can scroll through the Xref to find the next unused memory location in a different area of the controller.

Instruction editing is a modal operation...and has been for ever...and it would scare the crap out of me to make it modeless. But I may have a better answer. If you minimally use nicknames for your internal values, we can do this for you. Just type a new nickname into the field and accept the instruction. We will prompt you with a dialog that give your several options. One of the options is to allocate the next unused element of a specified type. For internal variables, that is the only way I roll.

#1: I'm not sure now, but it has messed with me more than once... I will watch it closer in the future to let you know.

#2: If I have several program tabs open at once and I click an object in the ladder, it will bring it up in the Xref,
then, if I double click on one of the references in the Xref that points to a different program(or task), it will switch to the other tab, but it will highlight whatever I had last clicked on when that tab was in focus.

#3: That's what I thought you would probably say. It was a nice thought though. I don't like to use the 'next unused element' part, because I generally use blocks of C's or blocks of V's in each program and task, and it would become a twisted up mess that way...

[plcnut]

This might also be a good time to mention that when you are on an element, you can press Ctrl^+ and Ctrl^- to cycle through all of the references to the element under the cursor. Very handy.

Yes' I really like that feature.

[BobO]

#2: If I have several program tabs open at once and I click an object in the ladder, it will bring it up in the Xref,
then, if I double click on one of the references in the Xref that points to a different program(or task), it will switch to the other tab, but it will highlight whatever I had last clicked on when that tab was in focus.

That is most obviously a bug.

#3: That's what I thought you would probably say. It was a nice thought though. I don't like to use the 'next unused element' part, because I generally use blocks of C's or blocks of V's in each program and task, and it would become a twisted up mess that way...

I don't know what it is about you PLC guys and your memory block fixations. I run my displays with everything but nicknames turned off. It's affectionately (I hope ) referred to at Host as "Bob mode". Once I assign an intelligent name to something I don't want to know that it is C249...that's just noise. Now if I have comm needs that necessitate packing, that's a different problem. But for internal operational values, I don't want to know where it is. At all. I guess I am in the minority, but if you do it my way, you can absolutely fly while coding.

[plcnut]

#3: That's what I thought you would probably say. It was a nice thought though. I don't like to use the 'next unused element' part, because I generally use blocks of C's or blocks of V's in each program and task, and it would become a twisted up mess that way...

I don't know what it is about you PLC guys and your memory block fixations. I run my displays with everything but nicknames turned off. It's affectionately (I hope ) referred to at Host as "Bob mode". Once I assign an intelligent name to something I don't want to know that it is C249...that's just noise. Now if I have comm needs that necessitate packing, that's a different problem. But for internal operational values, I don't want to know where it is. At all. I guess I am in the minority, but if you do it my way, you can absolutely fly while coding.

Unless you want to reference any of it with pointers and then you have a real problem

[BobO]

Unless you want to reference any of it with pointers and then you have a real problem

Sure, but that's part of the design I would plan for. If I need to do array ops, I'll probably allocate a block specifically for that, rather than use my internal variable pool...pretty much exactly the way I do product development. For 90% of what I do, 'where' is irrelevant. The times it is relevant is because it is being used as an array.

This is one of the big reasons folks get in trouble in PLC development. The tools haven't traditionally made it possible to design rationally. I suspect the anal retentive streak you guys have developed is due to trying to survive in that world. While I understand where you came from and why you see the problem the way you do, I am trying hard to give you the tools to do things better. Now whether y'all old dogs can be taught new tricks...well that's a different discussion.

[plcnut]

I'm not an old dog, but I can be hard headed on learning new tricks
So you keep up your prodding and I'll try to learn.

I have no formal training or schooling beyond high school, I got my start from the manual for a Square D Sy-Max That was when I learned what a binary number was and how discrete logic worked. It blew me away how simple it was! There was also a 205 rack with 240 CPU, along with a printout of the program that controlled one of our presses, so when it would break down the boss would let me figure it out. Within a year of seeing my first PLC I got to design wire and program three systems, including multiple analog in/outs with 7 PID's (2 cascading loops) and haven't got away from it since. When you talk about coloring outside the lines, I don't even know where the lines are! So shoot away! I'm all ears!

[BobO]

You're doing just fine and are pushing our little PLC is ways that few others are. Sometimes not knowing the 'right' way opens your mind to things that no-one else sees. We built this company on exactly that, and honestly, Do-more is the result of a bunch of PLC programming software guys building the PLC that they would want to use. Not a normal approach. We didn't sit down with everyone else's PLC to make our feature list. We focused on solving things the way we would want it to work. In some cases that allowed us to hit major home runs. In other cases, we missed obvious things like clearing bits using an indirect range.

When we first wrote DirectSoft 20 years ago, I tried to push people in the direction of purely symbolic programming. Most gave me the 'monkey doing math' look and continued to do things the way they had forever. Eventually I quit trying. If you are comfortable and productive, it isn't my place to tell you what is 'right'. When we did Do-more, it gave me a new opportunity to improve things like symbolic programming, so we created some new tools that can make it work much better. For me, that's the only way I would ever do it. But the same guys that looked at me like I was crazy 20 years ago, still do so today. And guess what...it's still fine. As long as they are productive, I won't judge.

That doesn't mean I won't take the opportunity to poke a finger in someone's ribs, but it's all in fun.

[plcnut]

Instruction editing is a modal operation...and has been for ever...and it would scare the crap out of me to make it modeless.

I made a helpful discovery today, when I have a box open and am editing it, I can hover my mouse over the ladder and scroll using the auto-scroll bars on the edges of my track-pad! Super handy!

[franji1]

I made a helpful discovery today, when I have a box open and am editing it, I can hover my mouse over the ladder and scroll using the auto-scroll bars on the edges of my track-pad! Super handy!

Yeah, that's a bug in the driver.  I found this in a file listing all previous updates to your current Synaptics driver version 15.2.11.1.

Version  15.3.22 08/25/2011 (WinXP/Vista/Win7/Linux)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bug Fixes
...
  -Fixed issues related to cross app modal dialogs such as focus can be
   changed to Window which is behind modal dialog.     

[plcnut]

What is it with me and bugs!?!?   

Thanks. 

[b_carlton]

Plcnut - the silicon entomologist.

[plcnut]

Plcnut - the silicon entomologist.

I'll take that as a compliment!