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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike Nash on January 18, 2016, 09:09:26 AM

Title: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Mike Nash on January 18, 2016, 09:09:26 AM: Sure is quiet! :(
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on January 18, 2016, 09:20:39 AM: Yeah...I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: franji1 on January 18, 2016, 09:35:14 AM: This is John Connor... at Crystal Peak.

(https://forum.hosteng.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hosteng.com%2Fdownload%2Fmaf%2FTerminator.jpg&hash=8f2ffae913d101699b304887d909bc2a6f5fda10)
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: plcnut on January 18, 2016, 09:41:38 AM: I agree. Somebody should break something so somebody else could try to fix it... ;D
I have been in C#.NET land lately...
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on January 18, 2016, 10:14:32 AM: Don't distract them, Mike! I want my Baby Do-More! I would say not to disturb them but I think that ship may have sailed! :D

Probably just Do-More working too well and we're all to busy making money to chat.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on January 18, 2016, 03:27:09 PM: Quote from: Controls Guy on January 18, 2016, 10:14:32 AM
Don't distract them, Mike! I want my Baby Do-More! I would say not to disturb them but I think that ship may have sailed! :D

Well, since you asked...

Plastic vendor is bringing by first mold shots tomorrow.

UL file is open, and we are building the requested test units now.

We are a few weeks from having the last boards to pre-production layouts. May still be tweaks, but for all intents complete.

Spent the last few weeks working on file system stuff for the SDCard and Ram Disk. Have added FILEOPEN, FILESEEK, FILETRUNC, FILEDEL, and FILECOPY. Have updated STREAMIN, STREAMOUT, and CLOSE to support the file systems.

Since we now have a file system, just today added the ability to send an attachment in an EMAIL. Also added the ability to delete the source file after sending.

Next we are going to add a file logging instruction, RECIPEREAD, and RECIPEWRITE. The recipe instructions will work similarly to PUBLISH and SUBSCRIBE, but to records in a file.

Fun stuff!
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on January 18, 2016, 04:20:13 PM: Sweet! Thanks for the update. Can hardly wait! :)
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Dean on January 19, 2016, 03:15:05 PM: The file instructions/data logging sound like something that would be very useful on a project my boss and I have been kicking around. I'm guessing that the files would be basic text files? From a regulatory standpoint, having the ability to make them somehow read only would be really nice. From a data storage standpoint, having a file that can be "corrected" is a big no-no in a lot of industries. When I'm looking for a data logging system, the existence of read only data files is one of the first things I look for. Usually that means some proprietary software provided by the data logger manufacturer, and that would just lay another responsibility on your already full plate. Anyway just a thought.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on January 19, 2016, 05:32:04 PM: Quote from: Dean on January 19, 2016, 03:15:05 PM
The file instructions/data logging sound like something that would be very useful on a project my boss and I have been kicking around. I'm guessing that the files would be basic text files? From a regulatory standpoint, having the ability to make them somehow read only would be really nice. From a data storage standpoint, having a file that can be "corrected" is a big no-no in a lot of industries. When I'm looking for a data logging system, the existence of read only data files is one of the first things I look for. Usually that means some proprietary software provided by the data logger manufacturer, and that would just lay another responsibility on your already full plate. Anyway just a thought.

I'm open to doing what we can, but I'm not completely sure I know what that is. Obviously if the PLC is capable of writing the file, it is capable of re-writing it. It would be possible, perhaps, to create something like a write-once file, but using it is voluntary by the coder so that hasn't really helped. If it is simply an external access issue, we could probably add a file or user permission that would make a file or the file system itself externally read-only. Maybe you could elaborate a bit. It might be easy for us if we better understood the need.

Current plan is to create a file system management utility for DmD. We want you to be able to read, write, delete, etc all of the PLC's file systems. We are also considering adding HTTP and/or FTP access to the same.

When we crafted Do-more, we worked to build the control engine we would want to use, but to be honest, we deprioritized some of the nice-to-have features like file systems, data logging, and web access. Now that we have the core controller where we want it, we are finally getting to where we can focus on cool features like this. We're loving it.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Dean on January 19, 2016, 07:18:56 PM: Let's take a data logger system we use here at my work as an example. Made by T and D Corp, the RTR-500 series. These are wireless modules that in our case measure temperatures. They broadcast to a base station connected to a PC. The PC has software that generates a report for each associated logger, daily or however often you require. The report contains all the data points collected during the defined period. The report is proprietary, it can only be opened with the above mentioned software, and the data can't be changed. This type of format makes it acceptable to an auditor, as it is not susceptible to data falsification. I think I've done a bad job of explaining, but does that make sense?
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: ADC Product Engineer on January 19, 2016, 07:54:18 PM: Typically these sorts of devices write a binary coded file that has some sort of hashing built in to mildly scramble the data so that it is hard to decode and manipulate with a hex editor. The PC app can decode the data and print or save off to Excel or some other print/manipulate utility to make reports, but the original data must be kept able to be kept intact to prove that no manipulation has taken place.

We used a lot of Yaskawa loggers at my past job to provide EPA data on our flare performance. If you need any more info, hit me up.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on January 19, 2016, 09:18:45 PM: Actually I think it would be very easy to do something like this with the primitive file system instructions we are adding. Creating a rudimentary encryption is quite easy in Do-more and could very easily be decoded with a simple PC app at the other end.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: HB_GUY on February 09, 2016, 01:31:02 AM: Any more news of the new Do-More line you are willing to share?
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 09, 2016, 11:44:39 AM: I'd love to, but it's best to avoid too much discussion about unannounced products, at least as related to availability. If you have specific questions I might be able to answer.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: deep6ixed on February 09, 2016, 07:24:37 PM: New features? Form factor? Terminal type?

As for date will it be this year? Have a project coming up that id like to try a do more type cpu in.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 10, 2016, 10:27:15 AM: Quote from: deep6ixed on February 09, 2016, 07:24:37 PM
Form factor?

- Bricks with stackable expansion.
- Three CPU housing sizes, with four CPU classes:
a) 20DI/16DO/4AI/2AO
b) 10DI/8DO/1AI/1AO
c) 6DI/4DO/1AI/1AO
d) pure modular, no I/O
- Up to 8 expansion modules plug on the end, ala CLICK, but backplane is very fast.

Quote from: deep6ixed on February 09, 2016, 07:24:37 PM
New features?

Definitely.

- Analogs are selectable by channel for all voltage and current ranges. Integrated scaling.
- Interrupts
a) Up to 32 Interrupt Service Routines, which are a new code block type
b) Event interrupts. Think logic analyzer triggers...if X1 is true and X4 is false then on the rising edge of X0 or falling edge of X10 fire routine XYZ.
c) Timer interrupts. Recurrent or single.
d) Register match interrupt...if HSC Chan 1 is equal to 1234 fire interrupt ABC.
- Speaking of new code block types, we've added subroutines. At this point they are still parameter-less, but we added a really nice call instruction that copies parameters into sub's internal data and will import the call signature from other call instructions. Not true parameter passing, but still super functional.
- High speed inputs. Pretty much the same features as CTRIO2 input channels assignable to any combination of inputs.
- High speed outputs. CTRIO2 preset tables and electronic cam tables implemented *in hardware*...1us response time.
- Integrated motion. This is still in development, but the goal is to be better than CTRIO2 Axis Mode.
- Some high speed I/O and motion functions are supported in Interrupt Service Routines, and interrupts can be reconfigured by instruction...meaning...you can chain together interrupts into highly complex functions.
- SdCard slot
a) Simple logging to essentially unlimited files. Instruction based so you can have as many as you can fit.
b) Full file I/O instruction set...FILEOPEN, FILECLOSE, FILEREAD, FILEWRITE, FILEDELETE, FILETRUNC, FILEGETPTR, FILESETPTR, FILEQUERY, FILEMKFLDR. You don't like our log instruction? Roll your own. Wanna do a complex file-based recipe solution? Roll your own.
c) DmD based file manager to read, write, and delete files, as well an manage directories.
d) EMAIL can send files from SdCard and RamDisk file systems as attachments.

I'm sure there are more, but I need to write some code...

Quote from: deep6ixed on February 09, 2016, 07:24:37 PM
Terminal type?

5mm Euro on bricks, 5mm Euro on 8 and 12 point expansion, and 3.8mm Euro on 16 point expansion. We built it a little bigger to accommodate 5mm everywhere possible...a man shouldn't have to work on his PLC with the same screwdriver he uses on his eyeglasses. It will also have ZipLinks.

Quote from: deep6ixed on February 09, 2016, 07:24:37 PM
As for date will it be this year? Have a project coming up that id like to try a do more type cpu in.

No commitments on dates...but...we are very much hoping these guys will be controlling some Christmas trees this year. ;)
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: deep6ixed on February 12, 2016, 12:21:25 PM: Remember the time filtered input idea I listed over in the suggestion post?

If Input X stays on or off for Y time, then the bit is true. Is that still a possibility?
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 12, 2016, 01:05:28 PM: Quote from: deep6ixed on February 12, 2016, 12:21:25 PM
Remember the time filtered input idea I listed over in the suggestion post?

If Input X stays on or off for Y time, then the bit is true. Is that still a possibility?

Sure. As long as we're talking about milliseconds, and not microseconds, that's a simple software based timer that can be added for all Do-more controllers, not just the new bricks. Right now we are focusing on new features specific to the new platform, but we are definitely planning many more enhancements for all Do-more controllers as time permits.

The instruction would take about 30 minutes to add to the controller...it's DmD that takes time.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 12, 2016, 01:32:15 PM: Was out walking, thinking about the filtered input. I could see several ways I might like it to work:
1. Delayed turn on. Immediate turn off.
2. Delayed turn on. Delayed turn off.
3. Delayed toggle.

Would take a timer structure. Time would be expressed in ms.

Probably could optionally invert the input, but that isn't really a mode.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on February 12, 2016, 05:51:31 PM: Some of this stuff can be done (albeit less efficiently) in ladder. Obviously, you can debounce an input already in ladder with timers, but I'm thinking more of when we have parameterizable user functions, if you want a debounce, you can write one. (A debounce function is in fact one of the first boxes I wrote in the latest version of Siemens S7)

That would free you to do in hardware only the things that can only be done in hardware, AND would leave you more time to implement user functions! ;)
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Garyhlucas on February 12, 2016, 08:58:46 PM: I've hooked our cart to your horse. I'm building small waste water treatment plants that use ultrafiltration membranes. The first one is delivered and awaiting startup. Looks like we get a PO for two more next week and another shortly after that. We just became the basis of design for another job and we have a couple of more waiting to commit. So while I've only bought two Do-More systems so far, things are starting to look exciting and I have lots of uses for the bricks too.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 12, 2016, 09:37:49 PM: Quote from: Garyhlucas on February 12, 2016, 08:58:46 PM
I've hooked our cart to your horse. I'm building small waste water treatment plants that use ultrafiltration membranes. The first one is delivered and awaiting startup. Looks like we get a PO for two more next week and another shortly after that. We just became the basis of design for another job and we have a couple of more waiting to commit. So while I've only bought two Do-More systems so far, things are starting to look exciting and I have lots of uses for the bricks too.

Awesome!
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: deep6ixed on February 15, 2016, 11:14:33 AM: Some of our applications would require time in seconds, so this would take a little more work.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 15, 2016, 11:41:26 AM: Quote from: deep6ixed on February 15, 2016, 11:14:33 AM
Some of our applications would require time in seconds, so this would take a little more work.

That's easy. If you were needing microseconds, that would be hard.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: deep6ixed on February 16, 2016, 11:21:05 AM: Here's an example:

We draw wire down from a specific size to another, and we take it up a tower to a drum and back down to straighten out all the loops, at the top of the tower there is a plate that free swings on a pivot. The entire time the machine is running, the plate is swinging back and forth. We have a timer that waits until it's been toggled for a full 2 seconds before it actually throws the alarm and shuts the machine down.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on February 16, 2016, 11:47:43 AM: But if the time frame for your alarm is several seconds, what would be advantage of doing the filter in hardware rather than software? If I were doing that application and I had both hardware and software filters of that range available, I actually think I'd rather do it in ladder because it clearly exposes the alarm logic to someone looking at the program. A hardware filter configuration OTOH might go unnoticed.

As I see it, hardware signal handling has value when the processing needs to be done at significantly sub-scan speeds. High speed counting on dedicated or general purpose input channels, for example.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 16, 2016, 10:59:23 PM: That's the point...If he didn't need microseconds, it can be a simple timer instruction rather than hardware. Very easy to implement.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on February 16, 2016, 11:08:20 PM: Right, you and I are on the same page. That was addressed to him.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 16, 2016, 11:45:00 PM: Quote from: Controls Guy on February 16, 2016, 11:08:20 PM
Right, you and I are on the same page. That was addressed to him.

I don't actually remember if the OP ever mentioned a hardware function. I was attempting to confirm that his app wouldn't require it. But for the record, the inputs already have hardware based digital filters on them.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on February 17, 2016, 02:29:24 PM: He probably didn't, but he said he had the application working now, and what else could he be using but software timers, right? So then, if he's asking for something on this thread, I assumed he must have been thinking hardware.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: BobO on February 17, 2016, 05:03:16 PM: Quote from: Controls Guy on February 17, 2016, 02:29:24 PM
He probably didn't, but he said he had the application working now, and what else could he be using but software timers, right? So then, if he's asking for something on this thread, I assumed he must have been thinking hardware.

I think he just wanted a canned instruction to make it easier, rather than having to roll his own.
Title: Re: Hello? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me.
Post by: Controls Guy on February 17, 2016, 05:59:11 PM: Quote from: BobO on February 17, 2016, 05:03:16 PM
I think he just wanted a canned instruction to make it easier, rather than having to roll his own.

Ah, OK. Well, then that brings us back to me wanting user functions! He can roll his own once, exactly the way he wants it, and after that it's an OTS instruction. (You knew I'd work this back there somehow, didn't you?)