Host Engineering Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ddubs2248 on October 16, 2012, 09:47:38 AM

Title: New HMI
Post by: ddubs2248 on October 16, 2012, 09:47:38 AM
Is Host developing a new HMI to replace Lookout Direct?  Something that is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit?  I love what you guys do and would much rather buy from you than NI, Wonderware, etc.

Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: franji1 on October 16, 2012, 09:56:55 AM
Sorry, no.

Have you looked at ADC's C-more panels?  They have a wide range of sizes/functionality/price.  They also support many other PLC manufacturers, in addition to the ADC PLCs (e.g. AB).
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: ddubs2248 on October 17, 2012, 06:33:22 PM
Will there be a driver release to HMI manufacturers for the Do-More PLC?  Wonderware, Indusoft, etc?
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: franji1 on October 17, 2012, 08:05:43 PM
No, just ADC's C-more HMI panels.  Most HMI vendors have Modbus/RTU and Modbus/TCP, which are both built-in the H2-DM1E CPU (Modbus/RTU is built-in the H2-DM1 (non-E) CPU).
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: Controls Guy on October 19, 2012, 01:03:47 AM
Seriously?  You're not going to let the native protocol out to all the MMI guys?
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: BobO on October 19, 2012, 08:55:47 AM
C-more is the only one to ask so far. It is very complicated, and for now, there is no protocol document. While I won't say absolutely no, I would prefer not to.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: ATU on October 19, 2012, 09:03:04 AM
Believe me its probably much better that way. Unless the PLC is a big player in the market, the HMI vendor is not going to put out resources to fix your problem if one arises. Host can't afford to buy everyone's HMI and work out who's at fault when it doesn't work. Unless its all in one house, you get nothing but finger pointing. At least with Modbus being a generally accepted universal protocol, you have a chance to debug it and determine who to point the finger at. The user is caught in the middle.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: deep6ixed on October 19, 2012, 10:00:20 AM
You could in theory use the do-more anywhere you had a driver for the DL series with the ability to map memory to the DLX/DLY/DLV ranges...
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: BobO on October 19, 2012, 10:08:55 AM
I would use Modbus over DL...but yes, you are correct.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: deep6ixed on October 19, 2012, 10:21:10 AM
For those out there with some PHP skills, there is a PHP library that can support Modbus/TCP...  I could see custom HMI and even more advanced options such as data logging come from it.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: ATU on October 19, 2012, 10:24:51 AM
Cool   I'm thinking home automation..  Got the link?
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: deep6ixed on October 19, 2012, 11:37:11 AM
http://code.google.com/p/phpmodbus/

It only supports some of the commands, but it does open it up for some interesting possibilities. 

Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: Controls Guy on October 19, 2012, 11:53:20 AM
Believe me its probably much better that way. Unless the PLC is a big player in the market, the HMI vendor is not going to put out resources to fix your problem if one arises. Host can't afford to buy everyone's HMI and work out who's at fault when it doesn't work. Unless its all in one house, you get nothing but finger pointing. At least with Modbus being a generally accepted universal protocol, you have a chance to debug it and determine who to point the finger at. The user is caught in the middle.

Good point.  I would probably tend to use Modbus anyway even if the native protocol were supported, at least on products that might get redone with other PLC's or other HMI's.  That way there's a layer of protocol-agnosticism between the HMI and PLC that avoids linking the design irrevocably to either of them.  For one-time shot type projects it wouldn't matter as much.  Plus with the Modbus, you get the built-in comm sandbox, which is a good thing.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: BobO on October 19, 2012, 12:07:26 PM
Mark and I were just discussing the possibility of designing an HMI-centric subset of our programming protocol that would be fully documented and exposed via a different IP port number. Maybe go so far as to allow each block and heap item as being visible through it our not, and beef up the security to a high degree. For now, though, I'm loving Modbus...it just works.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: ATU on October 19, 2012, 12:08:13 PM
What I am personally experiencing is that when a problem arises, they can then connect their HMI to any Modbus supported device and verify for themselves the existence of their bug. It's a nice insurance policy, otherwise, your pretty much SOL.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: Controls Guy on October 19, 2012, 07:05:45 PM
Mark and I were just discussing the possibility of designing an HMI-centric subset of our programming protocol that would be fully documented and exposed via a different IP port number. Maybe go so far as to allow each block and heap item as being visible through it our not, and beef up the security to a high degree.

Cool idea!

Quote
For now, though, I'm loving Modbus...it just works.

Agreed.
Title: Re: New HMI
Post by: deep6ixed on October 26, 2012, 01:52:34 AM
For now I would be happy if we had a simple XML file we could access from Ethernet.  Even that much could really open the doors for some interesting applications.  I wrote a PHP XML parser that would read an XML file from each machine (http://machineip/status.xml) and our supervisor could call up the entire plant from his computer in real time.

But this required us to install ethernet I/O units designed just for that job.  If we had a file we could poll that could give us the values of specific addresses I think it could be a big help. We can use Modbus, but for web app development I've only seen one modbus library.

Ill look into seeing what I can make the Modbus Lib I posted earlier do.  Anyone know of a good Modbus/TCP simulator I can use to test with?  Would rather not use homemade code on a production machine if I can help it.