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[Controls Guy]

Am I the only one that hates running wiring to the top and bottom of a PLC?
Maybe there are reasons that are beyond my understanding, but I would much prefer either all the wiring terminals across the bottom of a PLC, or the vertical wiring terminals like on DL205, or the CLICK; but I despise the top wiring on DL05/06 and Micrologix 1200/1500 etc.
Thoughts from other users?

You're not the only one, although for me, it's not the top+bottom that offends, it's just the low-density linear arrangement period.  I guess for me, bottom-only would be even worse.  Coming from PLC-5's and TI5x0/5x5's where you can get hundreds of I/O points, with probe-able screw terminals, in a square foot of PLC front, I really dislike the brick form factor.  I discussed this point once with BobO, and he said that it's far more expensive to do perpendicular connectors due to the likely arrangement of circuit boards inside the housing.

[BobO]

Housing design for bricks is problematic and just generally works better with horizontal boards and terminals. I totally understand the frustration.

The new platform will have 3 sizes of bricks (the smallest has vertical terminals like Click), but also a modular only CPU/PS combination ala DL405, that will make it possible to do purely vertical. I have zero doubt that we will sell way more horizontal terminal bricks than the modular CPU, because in the end cost almost always wins out. I would

[Controls Guy]

I appreciate you guys giving us the option to do purely vertical and mostly vertical systems.  People often do weird things when trying to analyze costs, like trying to do a separate analysis on each part, assuming that the lowest/best product will be created by choosing each individual lowest cost part.  Doesn't really work, IMO.  I don't want the absolute cheapest part, I want the best price I can get on the part with the characteristics I actually want.  The other way is short-sighted IMO.

[Controls Guy]

One of my customers is an integration company that uses a lot of Siemens.  The owner was talking to a customer about some application that some previous integrator had really hosed up with a Click, to the point where the poor customer didn't think a PLC could do the app.  This guy said "Well, as long as you don't try to do it with the $69 one, a PLC can definitely do this job."

(Now that's not a swipe at DM1 design in any way, but rather an example of the goofy-butt way users who don't know what they're doing try to optimize costs)

[BobO]

One of my customers is an integration company that uses a lot of Siemens.  The owner was talking to a customer about some application that some previous integrator had really hosed up with a Click, to the point where the poor customer didn't think a PLC could do the app.  This guy said "Well, as long as you don't try to do it with the $69 one, a PLC can definitely do this job."

(Now that's not a swipe at DM1 design in any way, but rather an example of the goofy-butt way users who don't know what they're doing try to optimize costs)

We'll be sure to keep our most affordable Do-more above $69.

[deep6ixed]

One of my customers is an integration company that uses a lot of Siemens.  The owner was talking to a customer about some application that some previous integrator had really hosed up with a Click, to the point where the poor customer didn't think a PLC could do the app.  This guy said "Well, as long as you don't try to do it with the $69 one, a PLC can definitely do this job."

(Now that's not a swipe at DM1 design in any way, but rather an example of the goofy-butt way users who don't know what they're doing try to optimize costs)

We'll be sure to keep our most affordable Do-more above $69.

My boss was like that when he first hired in, he hated our DL Plc's cause he thought they were cheap and a few times he flat out refused to buy the click because it was in his words "Cheap and Plastic." 

Our main welding line uses a S7 Plc and to replace the CPU when it had a hardware fault was more that all the PLC setups in 6 of it's support machines combined and they have run 6+ years without much more than a relay output card going bad, he realized that maybe price isn't what determines quality.

[BobO]

My boss was like that when he first hired in, he hated our DL Plc's cause he thought they were cheap and a few times he flat out refused to buy the click because it was in his words "Cheap and Plastic." 

Our main welding line uses a S7 Plc and to replace the CPU when it had a hardware fault was more that all the PLC setups in 6 of it's support machines combined and they have run 6+ years without much more than a relay output card going bad, he realized that maybe price isn't what determines quality.

There is definitely a point at which inexpensive can become "cheap", but we try very hard to not go there. The key with any product is to use it for what it was designed for. When people try to use Click for a Do-more class app, somebody's feelings are gonna wind up getting hurt.

[Controls Guy]

My boss was like that when he first hired in, he hated our DL Plc's cause he thought they were cheap and a few times he flat out refused to buy the click because it was in his words "Cheap and Plastic."

Well, I'd go along with "Cheap and Plastic".  Not cheap BECAUSE it's plastic, but it is cheap/cheesy and it is plastic. (and it's certainly reasonable to believe that a lot of compromises and features would have to be left out to sell something at that price point)

I've used the current Siemens offering (which starts at about $200), and I can tell you I'd pay AT LEAST 10 times for one of those what I'd be willing to pay for a Click.  Maybe 20x.  It's a professional, quality product.

[HB_GUY]

Although I have pieced together my own web server post functions,
It may be nice to have a built in module that would help facilitate this kind of communication.

[BobO]

We've discussed adding HTTP GET and POST instructions. Biggest holdup is not being completely how people want to use them and how many people would. Don't want to add something that isn't useful.

[deep6ixed]

My boss was like that when he first hired in, he hated our DL Plc's cause he thought they were cheap and a few times he flat out refused to buy the click because it was in his words "Cheap and Plastic."

Well, I'd go along with "Cheap and Plastic".  Not cheap BECAUSE it's plastic, but it is cheap/cheesy and it is plastic. (and it's certainly reasonable to believe that a lot of compromises and features would have to be left out to sell something at that price point)

I've used the current Siemens offering (which starts at about $200), and I can tell you I'd pay AT LEAST 10 times for one of those what I'd be willing to pay for a Click.  Maybe 20x.  It's a professional, quality product.

I'm assuming your using the Siemens LOGO unit (I think that's what it's called)?  Our sister plant upgraded one of our machines to use one.  I would have went Do-More but wasn't my project.  But they are nice simple units.

But for the Click, we have them in shop, but mostly for small simple projects. But they have limitations and we have had some hardware issues of I/O points failing.

Honestly they make great diagnostic tools that we use to trouble shoot some of our other machines.  Currently we have a counter in one of our welders that sometimes stops counting.  Contacted OEM to get some advice (Program notes are in german on an S7, something I'm not too familiar with.)  They told me that the input(s) to the counter were acting up.

Well after some troubleshooting, I wired a click up to the same input terminals and emulated the function of the counter and turns out the inputs were fine, but rather when they upgraded the program there were a few bugs...

[Controls Guy]

I'm assuming your using the Siemens LOGO unit (I think that's what it's called)?  Our sister plant upgraded one of our machines to use one.  I would have went Do-More but wasn't my project.  But they are nice simple units.

No, I'm talking about S7-1200s! $200 for the low end! Very competitive with a Do-More, capability and speed-wise.  User-defined types, library functions, user and predefined system tasks, large selection of built-in data types, built-in Ethernet.  Structured Text programming, etc.  The only place they come up short vs. a Do-More is memory on the low end units, and (in the case of the 1200s only), the brick PLC style wiring along the top and bottom, vs. real PLC vertical terminal arrangement.  I have one product where I need one analog but otherwise a brick PLC is fine, and they have two (10-bit, voltage only) built-in.  Basically it's like a DM1 that I can buy now.

Call me a PLC snob if you want, but I never really use smart relays like the Logo.  They're priced about the same as an inexpensive PLC and do far less, so what's the point?  I do know some people who like them for the simplicity, but I think a lot of that is that they're used to the smart relays and if they used PLC's once or twice, even that advantage would vanish.

[deep6ixed]

DM1?

Thats why that maintenance manager used it I think was the simplicity.  His PLC skills are very lacking.

Back when the machine was ours, I suggested gutting all the wiring and starting over.  Wiring that had been oil soaked and at least 50 years old, insulation falling off.

But I did plan on putting a DM in, just for the expansion capacity.  You never need as much IO as you plan for, you need double! 

Honestly a DM would be way overkill for that application, as it was nothing more than conversion of simple relay logic.  Total of about 15 relays I think in the whole control cabinet. 

Sad part was that I had to fly out to New Mexico and help program that machine and get it running.

[BobO]

DM1?

I think he was referring to the brick in development.

[Controls Guy]

Thats why that maintenance manager used it I think was the simplicity.  His PLC skills are very lacking.

Wait, what?  He like smart relays, but Clicks are bad because they're cheap and plastic???  I assumed he was throwing PLC-5's at every project or something.