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Author Topic: New features wanted!! Apply here!  (Read 352571 times)

Mike Nash

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #345 on: April 26, 2015, 08:08:22 AM »
So who slapped your hand?

Some guy that goes by BobO back in Reply #232.  ;D

[Quote from: Mike Nash on 2014-09-25, 16:58:12
Yes I would love to have Add On Instruction ability, and User Data Types (say Drive_2.AccelTime etc.) And not being able to have a User Memory type with a number in the name is a drag (Drive2).

User data types and functions are coming in DmD 2.0.

Because we don't use a token to delineate normal array type memories (X0 vs X[0]) it becomes very difficult to parse if you allow numbers in block names. If I have MyBlock2 and MyBlock22, what does MyBlock221 reference? As much as we would like to support it, sanity must prevail. I would say that user data types will help to a significant extant.

"Slapped my hand" was tongue in cheek, for which I see no emoticon. And yes, I was asking for something slightly different previously.

ADC Product Engineer

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #346 on: April 26, 2015, 10:28:30 AM »
Well, I just feel that if there's already a superior tool for editing tabular data, why spend effort upgrading the runner up that could be spent on adding features that MUST be in the programming package?

I will field this one.  @Controls Guy, trust me when I say that you are pretty advanced in your knowledge of PLC's.  For most users they don't want or even sometimes know how to drop a program or documentation into Excel and edit it.  The thought has never occurred to them that it might be possible.

This isn't to say that anyone is dumb either.  It's all a level of programming efficiency and suitable mentoring.  I know when I first started at AutomationDirect, I thought I knew a fair amount.  After a month there, I felt like I was just a beginner again.  I learned an amazing amount from the other Tech Guys as well as from users that I talked to on the phone.  Almost 13 years later my programming efficiency is incredibly more advanced than I ever would have achieved on my own and I had been programming everything from Mainframe computers, PC's to PLC's since the early 80's.

Let's say for argument's sake that 5% of a particular device's users are beginners.  15% are "Experts".  That leaves 80% as some sort of intermediate user.  In that 80% there is an amazing diversity of ability.  Now let's postulate that of that 80% intermediate that only a handful are going to make it to "Expert" status.  The rest are stuck in what one author has called the "perpetual Intermediate" state.  That is to say that they will never have enough time, willingness or for some some other reason just cannot make to being an "Expert".  Maybe it's because like a lot of people doing controls work they have to wear too many hats. 

"I'll only get to send a week programming this PLC, then I have to make final documentation, do the start up and then on to my next project."  This guy just can't get enough time in to advance properly.  But.  He is still a competent programmer who does a fair amount of business buying PLC's and programming them for a living.

So wind this whole thing up, we (ADC and HOST) have to accommodate a very large span of users who have incredibly different programming styles and competency levels.  We would be shooting ourselves in the foot just to cater to the 15% of the "Experts" or the 5% of the "Beginners".  We can't ignore the Beginners or the Experts, but we can't just make features that only appeal to either group as well and do nothing for the Intermediates. Therefore my vote would be to ditch the leading underscore and make the documentation editor just a little bit more friendly for everyone involved.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 10:39:24 AM by ADC Product Engineer »

BobO

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #347 on: April 26, 2015, 02:17:10 PM »
@Mike Nash

Hand slap? Nah...just felt like that 'cause nerd-speak is so tedious.

You will be able to do what I think you originally wanted, using user types, allocated from heap. Imagine something like Drive1.Speed or Drive1.Position. Goal is still DmD 2.0 for that.

@Everyone

We are adding fill to the doc editor for this release. You will be able to create a doc record (nickname == Booger), then do a spreadsheet style fill to create Booger2, Booger3, etc. It won't replace Excel for heavy duty stuff, but should be helpful for most.

And we will definitely drop the underscore. We predict 173% of the issues you guys face...and try to solve them all. For the most part, y'all are unaware of the 100% (it just worked) and unaware of most of the 73% (never needed it, but didn't hurt you)...but there are a few that we tried to fix for you that just annoyed you. We repent...
"It has recently come to our attention that users spend 95% of their time using 5% of the available features. That might be relevant." -BobO

franji1

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #348 on: April 26, 2015, 04:21:02 PM »
Really?  Awesome!  When was this added? That was a request of mine a long time ago and I didn't realize it was ever done.
Probably right after you requested it, maybe even 1.0  ;D.

I just checked, the Export->Project command ALWAYS does the element documentation in the multi-column form (no option), cuz since you are exporting the PROJECT, you probably want to IMPORT it back into Designer, maintaining any multi-line element Description formatting.

However, the Export->Element Documentation may be for a database or for re-import or who knows, so it has two options:
o Standard Format (Description is just one CSV field, any CR/LFs replaced with a space)
o Standard Format PLUS export multi-line Description as multiple CSV fields (can't get more descriptive than that, eh?  ;D)

Just checked - the feature was in 1.0  ;D.

3 Cheesy Grins in 1 post.  I think that's a record for me  ;D! (make that 4)

Controls Guy

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #349 on: April 27, 2015, 02:32:10 PM »
Probably right after you requested it, maybe even 1.0  ;D.

No, this was in early 2006 relative to the release of DirectSoft (5?).  I didn't see it in DirectSoft after that and just never realized it was in DMD.  Did this get added in DSoft as well?

Appreciate the change and the heads up -- this makes life easier!   :)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 03:53:30 PM by Controls Guy »
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.

Controls Guy

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #350 on: April 27, 2015, 02:41:38 PM »
"I'll only get to send a week programming this PLC, then I have to make final documentation, do the start up and then on to my next project."  This guy just can't get enough time in to advance properly.  But.  He is still a competent programmer who does a fair amount of business buying PLC's and programming them for a living.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of what you posted (the entire post, not just what I quoted), but having said that, I'm still of the opinion that:

1) The best overall collection of tools benefits everyone at every level of familiarity/proficiency.  Since outside editing is there, it seems like that moves upgrades to the internal docs UI to a different place in the 80/20 spectrum.

2) The people who don't like the existing nickname disambiguation are probably the same high-volume users who don't mind using Excel.  The casual user probably doesn't mind the way it is now.

So in short, I try to look at requesting things from a bang-for-buck point of view because I know there's only so many development personnel and hours available, and try to request only the things that are the most critical to me and for which there isn't some efficient existing alternative.  I found out there was an existing efficient alternative so backed off on suggesting additional work here.
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.

franji1

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #351 on: April 27, 2015, 03:42:29 PM »
Did this get added in DSoft as well?
Sorry, no.

Controls Guy

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #352 on: April 27, 2015, 03:50:11 PM »
Did this get added in DSoft as well?
Sorry, no.

No apology required -- I have no particular plans to use DL classic PLC's much if at all in the future (Do-More rocks!  ;D).  I just thought that if it didn't get added, that was probably why I never thought to try in DMD.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 12:37:50 PM by Controls Guy »
I retract my earlier statement that half of all politicians are crooks.  Half of all politicians are NOT crooks.  There.

Garyhlucas

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #353 on: April 27, 2015, 06:41:19 PM »

"I'll only get to send a week programming this PLC, then I have to make final documentation, do the start up and then on to my next project."  This guy just can't get enough time in to advance properly.  But.  He is still a competent programmer who does a fair amount of business buying PLC's and programming them for a living.


Me to a T, only the time span is in the range of 4 to 6 months typically.  So my skill set plateaued a long time ago.  The same for Excel, Word, Rhino3D, AutoCAD, SolidWorks, and CamBam unfortunately. 

Also at this job I have almost no infrastructure to fall back on.  You want an AutoCAD drawing? First I have to create a title block for the sheet sizes we can print.  SolidWorks drawing? Same deal. Fill out a timecard? Okay but first I have to create a timecard!  PLC programming? First I have to select a PLC, draw a wiring schematic, do a process description, learn a new programming package, on and on.  If people could just understand how long this all takes it would be fun.

BobO

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #354 on: April 27, 2015, 06:48:10 PM »
80% of our users fall into the "perpetual immediate" category, and they are our focus. The challenge is in building something that noobs can use and experts don't hate, while catering to smart guys who write PLC code about 10% of the time.
"It has recently come to our attention that users spend 95% of their time using 5% of the available features. That might be relevant." -BobO

Mike Nash

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #355 on: April 27, 2015, 07:55:16 PM »
80% of our users fall into the "perpetual immediate" category, and they are our focus. The challenge is in building something that noobs can use and experts don't hate, while catering to smart guys who write PLC code about 10% of the time.

I would have to say that sounds pretty profound! I can think of a few biggy corps that could use some of your insight.  ::)

I really appreciate companies that do strive to address issues and implement feature requests in a timely manner. I have dealt with another vendor that added features I desired and fixed issues as they were uncovered and it was very gratifying then also. And yes we still use their product and it actually complements yours. I haven't requested any new features from them lately, but they have already added most everything I was hoping for.  ;D

BobO

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #356 on: April 28, 2015, 09:18:49 AM »
80% of our users fall into the "perpetual immediate" category, and they are our focus. The challenge is in building something that noobs can use and experts don't hate, while catering to smart guys who write PLC code about 10% of the time.
I would have to say that sounds pretty profound! I can think of a few biggy corps that could use some of your insight.  ::)

I can't take credit. It's from a software design book (which I should know the title of, but don't recall it at the moment). It so obviously applied to our market, we latched onto it and it has become a very significant influence in how we design software now.
"It has recently come to our attention that users spend 95% of their time using 5% of the available features. That might be relevant." -BobO

franji1

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #357 on: April 28, 2015, 10:21:07 AM »
I can't take credit. It's from a software design book (which I should know the title of, but don't recall it at the moment).
About Face - The Essentials of User Interface Design by Alan Cooper, the Father of Visual Basic (the original one).  Don't hold that against him, he complains about Microsoft ALL the time in his book.

Davehx

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #358 on: June 29, 2015, 10:55:45 AM »
I haven't been here for a looong time (satified customer). I would like to know if there's anything being done with CAN comunications. We primarily do simple read/write commands and presently use LabVIEW for it. There are PLC's that have CAN capability now and I was wondering if you were going to do it also.
Thaks for ALL the great things you do now.

BobO

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Re: New features wanted!! Apply here!
« Reply #359 on: June 29, 2015, 11:19:35 AM »
I haven't been here for a looong time (satified customer). I would like to know if there's anything being done with CAN comunications. We primarily do simple read/write commands and presently use LabVIEW for it. There are PLC's that have CAN capability now and I was wondering if you were going to do it also.
Thaks for ALL the great things you do now.

Not opposed to it, although we really don't get much call for it. Are you primarily interested in master or slave?
"It has recently come to our attention that users spend 95% of their time using 5% of the available features. That might be relevant." -BobO