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Author Topic: CTRIO Workbench2  (Read 3977 times)
Mike Nash
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« on: July 15, 2016, 07:05:30 pm »

I got messed up today. CTRIO Workbench2 popped a message telling me I need to be sure I had newer firmware because of added registers. This was when I connected to a new in the box straight from ADC yesterday H0-CTRIO2.

I got messed up because it looks like the CTRIO2 firmware is really old since it is 1.5.0 and the bootloader is 1.0.5. When I told it to update it, I was presented with this nice 2.1.23 or something (I don't recall the exact numbers.) That did not work at all and got stuck in boot I think it was. It took a long time to resolve this simply because the update takes quite a long time and it took several iterations to figure it out.

Anyway, I would like to put in a request for the next release of Workbench to have some place obvious as to what version it is. I have managed to delete all the vagrant old versions on my computer and only have the latest now, but that is not easy to figure out. I tried hovering on filenames and everything I could think of (Netedit3 is where I think I heard that one.)

And a request to make it clear which firmware gets to go in which CTRIO. I understand now that CTRIO2 got to start over at 1.x.x but CTRIO is up to 2.x.x and is presented as an option and it crams it in there. The other little issue there is that there is a v2.x.x in the CTRIO firmware but a 2_1.x.x in CTRIO2 where the first 2 there means CTRIO2.

My fluency in CRYPTIC is a bit lacking. My memory is a bit weak too, so if any of this is just wrong, my apologies.

And yes, I am one of those people that prefer to have all my programs under Program Files and that is where I wound up with the multiple copies. This goes back to DOS in the late 80s and finding computers with 500 files all in C:\ I am reformed now. Host isn't the only one that wants their own way with my computer. It must be a PLC thing though.
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BobO
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Yes Pinky, Do-more will control the world!


« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 09:31:15 pm »

What version of CtrioWB are you running?
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"We would rather apologize to 20% for what we chose not to do, than to apologize to 100% for what we did poorly." -BobO
BobO
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Yes Pinky, Do-more will control the world!


« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 09:43:30 pm »

It sounds like you were trying to talk to a CTRIO2 with a CtrioWB version that didn't recognize them. I don't know off the top of my head what the exact version is, but 2.2-ish is required to talk to CTRIO2.

The CTRIO2 firmware files have a completely different extension and are a completely different format. With the correct WB, it should all just work.
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"We would rather apologize to 20% for what we chose not to do, than to apologize to 100% for what we did poorly." -BobO
Mike Nash
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 10:05:43 pm »

And that is possible, which is why it would be extremely useful to be able to see which version is running.

After I went through and uninstalled the ones I could find, and reinstalled with a fresh download things worked OK. The card was already at the latest versions when I had opened the box.

I am leaning towards Start Menu and PLC>Tools were running different versions and I picked the wrong start method that time. I had created the offline config with CTRIO-WB2 Offline from the Start Menu.
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BobO
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Yes Pinky, Do-more will control the world!


« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 10:09:40 pm »

You can tell. Click the icon in the corner, and select the About at the bottom.
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"We would rather apologize to 20% for what we chose not to do, than to apologize to 100% for what we did poorly." -BobO
BobO
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Yes Pinky, Do-more will control the world!


« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 09:47:30 am »

And sorry, I missed the middle paragraph in your OP. We are extremely busy on the next gen hardware, and while I try to support the forum, I can't spend as much time as I normally would and reading comprehension is the first to go, especially with longer posts.

It may not be obvious, but the version is viewable through the icon in the upper left corner. When you click it, you get a drop down menu and the About is at the bottom.

The CTRIO2 has caused quite a few confusion issues due to us trying to make it a drop in replacement for the CTRIO. Since it is designed to answer all the same questions the same way, if you don't have tools designed for CTRIO2, they assume they are talking to a CTRIO. Please trust that our intention was to make things easiest for users by allowing new modules to work in old systems unmodified, but it has caused no end of confusion and complaints. The sad thing is that the folks benefiting by the drop in will probably never know, but the ones struggling certainly express that. OTOH had we made it a different module, I doubt those impacted would have as much bad to say, and all of these issues could have been avoided. The design value was basically correct, but with unintended consequences. Again, I'm sorry.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 09:49:18 am by BobO » Logged

"We would rather apologize to 20% for what we chose not to do, than to apologize to 100% for what we did poorly." -BobO
Mike Nash
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 12:16:08 pm »

Having had an instance with the slow reset of the CTRIO causing missed encoder counts and a kludgy fudge to get around it, the CTRIO2 has been most welcome. I certainly don't mind seamless drop-in ability either.

However, I still don't understand the nearly universal "need" to make finding the software version inconvenient at best. This is certainly not restricted to a particular software provider either. (And I thought the icon was just for people without a mouse to move the window around. Command Prompt is the only other one I know of that requires you to use it if you want to cut and paste.)

So, I understand being busy and know the forums are not a place to come for quick answers - even though I usually get them quick enough for me.

But when you folks do get the opportunity, http://www.hosteng.com/SW-Products/SP_Demo_Utilites.htm#CTRIOWorkbench is pretty darn misleading as to what firmware/software is required. It certainly does seem to imply the 1.5.0 firmware in the H0-CTRIO2 is old.

BTW, on this PC at home I appear to have both 2.2.1 and 1.1 Beta. I guess I have some more scrubbing to do.

My new mantra: "I will always let software install where it wants to put itself."
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BobO
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Yes Pinky, Do-more will control the world!


« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2016, 02:39:51 pm »

I won't get into a debate regarding UI development, except to say that every piece of software we have ever shipped began life as a template app from Microsoft and represented the closest thing to a standard at the time. The use of an About item for versions is still a very common approach, and when apps are dialog-centric and do not have menus, it was a very common thing to use the icon for the About. I doubt that consumer apps have as strong a dependence on versions as technical apps, which may account for versions not being at the top. We've tried to do better with Do-more because there are so many possible versions between firmware, software, and projects, which becomes much worse when you start migrating and improving the product as we have.

As for the H2-CTRIO stuff on our website, yes, I can see how you might have been misled. I will also gently point out that nothing there mentioned H2-CTRIO2. All of that was written when we re-defined the register set of the original CTRIO to enhance the product...and offered free upgrades and forward compatibility to our users. Choosing not to do such things is generally easier, but isn't the way we roll at Host. If I have to deal with the occasional pissed off customer because we continue to improve our products, I'll gladly accept the beating. We have learned some related lessons with firmware versioning since doing Do-more, and all Do-more firmware now uses the Do-more technology version as its major/minor version. The new platform will start with 2.0, since that will be the Do-more Technology Version it supports initially.

Final thought: As a user of technical software myself, I well understand the concerns about upgrading (don't get me started on Altera's Quartus) and I tend to resist upgrading until I absolutely need to. I get that. Seriously. I will also say that except for relatively rare cases (that we try to release quick patches for), new versions of Host software are always better, and if you ever find yourself struggling with something like the recent CtrioWB unpleasantness, it is likely related to your software being old. When in doubt...upgrade. We've made that even easier with DmD by allowing side-by-side installs with older versions.

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"We would rather apologize to 20% for what we chose not to do, than to apologize to 100% for what we did poorly." -BobO
Mike Nash
Hero Member
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Posts: 499


« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 10:59:26 am »

Just FYI for anyone perusing this thread. DL06 Frequently Asked Questions number 50 on Automationdirect.com

Quote
Question

"CTRIO Workbench says my H0-CTRIO2 needs a firmware update" or "I updated the firwmare in my H0-CTRIO2, and now it's stuck in booter mode".
Answer

Older versions of CTRIO Workbench (2.1.x or earlier) will incorrectly identify a CTRIO2 as a CTRIO that needs a firmware update. Do NOT attempt this. You must get the latest CTRIO Workbench version from HostEng.com (2.2.x or later). Unzip and install this updated version of Workbench. IF you already attempted the firmware update and your CTRIO2 is now stuck in booter mode, you will need to do the same, PLUS, get the latest H0-CTRIO2 firmware from their website and try to update the CTRIO2 firmware again. Try several times, but if it still won't get out of booter mode, you will need to contact Returns Department.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 11:01:10 am by Mike Nash » Logged
ERICK C
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Posts: 1


« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 01:20:49 pm »

Hello me it almost the same happens with a ho-ctrio2 quick outputs also update the firmware but the ctrio did not return to program mode that in frizado in boot mode and I can not or I can remove from there as I can put it back in program mode
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