Using DS5 Over an Ethernet radio link

[Henryp]

Does DS5 have the ability to adjust time timeout values on the PC or software side? I’m trying to use DS5  over a radio link.  The radio link is good but I have problems making  the initial connection.

[Controls Guy]

What are you using for an Ethernet radio?  I haven't found a lot of selection, not ones I really like, and very dear.

[plcnut]

Does DS5 have the ability to adjust time timeout values on the PC or software side? I’m trying to use DS5  over a radio link.  The radio link is good but I have problems making  the initial connection.

You can change the timeout and retries if you edit the link. Just right click the link in the lower left corner on DSLaunch and in one of the tabs there will be an Advanced settings button  (You will have to be disconnected from the PLC to edit the link).

[jwbaker3]

I have been using Ubiquiti Networks, Nanostation M2's and Rocket M2's for about 5 years. I have not had any problems. I have about 35 installations in MN, ND, SD, IA, IL, and NE most are about 3 to 4 miles but a couple are working 12 miles line of site with good throughput speed (faster than the internet connection). I normally turn up the timeout and the retries if I am on the internet but I have not had any problems over the radio's locally.  
I use shielded outdoor cat5e cable and make sure everything is grounded properly (very important). I normally hook up a VPN router so I can upgrade/troubleshoot the PLC and touchscreen over the internet and the customer can use the C-More app on their Ipad or Iphone. One caution don't try to upgrade firmware over the internet, unless you like to travel.
JW

[Henryp]

We are also using Ubiquiti Networks, Nanostation M2's and Rocket M2's.  We add in a layer three switch and use OSPF to create a pseudo mesh.

[Henryp]

The timeout values are grayed out in the configure link windows for the DirectNet and K sequence protocols and are not an option when using an Ecom protocol.

[BobO]

The settings are disabled when the link is in use. You need to disconnect from the PLC.

Is the connection Ethernet or serial? If is it serial, you need to change the timeout settings on the protocol page. If the link is Ethernet, go to the port page and select the "Advanced Settings..." button, and change the timeout there. Additionally, if Ethernet, you really should be using ECOM protocol.

[Controls Guy]

I have been using Ubiquiti Networks, Nanostation M2's and Rocket M2's for about 5 years.

Thanks, JWB and HenryP, for the recommendation.  I'm looking for a more industrial-style package though.  Separate radio and antenna (preferably DIN-rail mount for the radio) as most of my apps are in AZ heat and I usually have a nice AC'd equipment room where I can put the electronics and run coax to the antenna on a mast.  Have id'd a couple new prospects since I last posted.  Looking at GridConnect W900 and Oring (no model number yet).  Will post on selection and experiences as I go along.

[jwbaker3]

Darth,

I understand wanting to mount the radio in the cabinet in the past I used N-Tron and Zlink, both good products but I ran into a problem with long leads from the radio to the antenna reducing the signal, and the price would stop some of my Ag customers. The Nanostation has a connector for an external antenna but I have never used it, I put a din mounted Ethernet switch in the cabinet and run the shielded cat5e out to the radio. I can make the run up to 300 feet with no loss of signal. The units I use are rated for -4 to 158 F (-20 to +70C). I have a couple of these running in a foundry (very hot) without problems. I know this sounds like I sell these radios (I don't,,well I do as a part of the systems we build) I just did not want you to short change a product we have had very good luck with. But I am always interested in a better product so please keep us posted on what you find and how it works.

Thanks, JW   

[Controls Guy]

So far, I've not had problems with attenuation from 10-20ft of coax.  Lower prices sound appealing of course.  

Good to know Ubiquiti has a separate antenna option.  Which model from the series are you using?  It doesn't look like they have many options in 900MHz, but the ranges you mention seem high for 2.4GHz or higher.

I will post what I end up with and my observations.

Update 11-6:  The relevant Oring model is the IGAP series, and retails for about $850 per node plus antenna, coax, etc.  Can't see anything that it does beyond the GridConnect model.

Looked some more into Ubiquiti's -- the Rocket M900 is 900MHz, 118db difference between transmit power and receiver sensitivity, and available as separate radio and antenna.  Not a super-industrial package, but not ridiculous either.  Appears to be Power Over Ethernet-only, as far as I can tell, so a POE injector has to be allowed for.

[jwbaker3]

If you have true line of site and a clear Fresnel zone the higher frequency will work at a longer distance. I have set up links with a rocket M5 point to point 22 - 23 miles with 150 Mbps throughput. I try to use 900 MHz if there is near line of site, 2.4 GHz if I have line of site, 5 GHz if I have clear line of site and a clear Fresnel zone and need more distance than the 2.4 will do or if the 2.4 GHz has too much background noise. I don't use 3.65 GHz because they have to be licensed with the FCC. With rocket you can pick the antenna that meets the needs of the installation, they range in price from 89 to 219 plus antenna and are all POE. The power injector comes with the radio 24 vdc. I use 24 awg stranded cat 5e shielded cable and have made 300 foot runs from the power injector to the radio with no problems.  If the radio needs to be harden look at the rocket titanium it is made with a cast aluminum enclosure. For the price they are the best I have found, but I am always looking for better, cheaper, faster.
JW

[Controls Guy]

I will look at the Titaniums.  At Ubiquiti's prices, even the "heavy-duty" model is probably cheaper than anything anyone else has.  It wasn't so much the heaviness I was looking for, but the industrial controls style.  Bookshelf oriented DIN-rail mount with remote antenna, PoT (Power Over Terminals), etc.

As far as the PoE, I probably wouldn't use their injector anyway, looks like a cheesy wall-wart deal.  I absolutely hate allowing wall-warts in anything I'm building (anything, not anything industrial) even when I have no choice.  Very unlikely I'd do it when I do have a choice.  Like I was saying though, the Rockets are already not terrible in terms of packaging, but I'll have a look at the Titaniums even so.

[Controls Guy]

Doing the project now and going with the GridConnect W900s ($450 plus antenna, if you need anything more than a 1/4 wave rubber duck).



http://gridconnect.com/industrial-wireless/900mhz/industrial-wireless-ethernet.html

The picture seems to me to suggest a slightly larger case than it really is, and plastic.  In reality, it's slightly taller than a 205, about an inch and a half wide, metal case.

I haven't tried it in the actual app site, distances trees and so on, just within the shop, but it works good so far. I have to say it's very cool being able to program and suck out HMI data simultaneously over the same remote link!  I'd have been happy to be able to do either, one at a time, without have to go out and physically flip a switch or anything, full simultaneous is even better, obviously.  Have tried it with both a Do-More and an Idec MicroSmart Pentra D12, and they both work OK, except that the Pentra appears to be able to do only 64 registers per transaction.  Lame, if so.

Will update this thread after commissioning at site, and probably also after some time passes so I can comment on reliability.